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What would you do?

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Banners Signs Etc., Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    Had a customer order a 10x27 foot banner and now he says he didn't want it and that we had discussed doing it in panels because they would be more durable...

    If we had discussed it, I would have told him that it would have been thousands of dollars, not the upper hundred that I quoted him.

    Add to the fact that we went back and forth on about 10 emails which read "banner proof" and "this is the cost for your banner with welded hems grommets etc.."

    We also lettered their van, which they paid for(but they expected their 270 sq ft panel job to cost a few hundred more than some lettering)

    Banner this and Banner that, even in the filename...not a single word about panels

    They are not a major customer at all so what would you do?

    :banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
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  2. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    deposit fail
     
  3. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

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    If he won't pay for what was clearly agreed on I would amicably cut my losses and refer him elsewhere.
     
  4. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    It is one of the largest (x) companies in this state...not just some guy...it is not worth pursuing??
     
  5. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

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    I was going by your statement that "they are not a major customer at all". If that's the case, I would part ways.

    If they will potentially send more work, I think I would clearly state your case (that panels were never discussed), but tell them you'll eat the cost of the banner if they agree to purchase the panels from you.

    My two cents.
     
  6. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    Hmm I guess I've been too pissed to even consider that option...but I doubt they would like the price...
     
  7. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    The word banner can take on many meanings. What you refer to as a banner, the next person sees as a website advertisement or just a large canvas of a background.

    Being more specific when you give the person your written quote and description will stop the majority of people from trying to jump ship on you, so in this case..... what did your written portion of the quote say and did you mention the weight, hemmed, grommeted and so forth in a manner that the client couldn't be confused ??
     
  8. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    "Hello Mr. X, this is what we have worked up. As all monitors display colors differently, the colors are standard blue and yellow. It will run $x installed.

    The banner you also requested will cost $x that includes design, welded hems, grommets, and full color graphics.

    Please let me know how you want to proceed from here.

    Thank you!"


    "company name 10x27 barn banner proof"
     

    Attached Files:

  9. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    kinda hard to follow your original post, but I believe the following happened:
    they called and wanted a "banner", but somehow later they decided to go with "panels", and possibly you printed the banner already?

    What are they desiring now as far as panels go? Alumacore/diebond?
    What/where/how are they intending on using the finished product? (why do they want it not on banner material now?)

    What wording is on your quote template describing the job specifics? (or were you just sending images not on a proof form?)

    I'm kinda confused.
     
  10. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Is that your written quote ??

    You don't have a system which identifies you, your information, your products, terms, costs column, taxes, etc, ??
     
  11. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    They came in wanted something to cover their old painted barn sign as well as getting a van lettered...I told them they could go with a banner although alumacore panels would be more durable but at that size would be cost prohibitive...There is no way in hell I would have even remotely hinted that they could get a panel job that large for that low of a price.

    Even if I did! The 10 or so emails about banner this and banner that should have been clear
     
  12. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    So what you're saying is the screw-up was the fact that they did not have an official looking form that particularly described that I would be providing them with a woven sign made of non rigid material usually 13oz. reinforced vinyl, and typically having no enclosing or supporting framework. Often intended for temporary use, a banner sign can be screen printed or painted, and is commonly hung from a pole or mounted to the facade of a building?

    We only have two employees, most quotes are done with pen and paper (which I have!)...So I guess this is what happens?
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Just about......:wink:

    The way you worded it now, sounds a bit p!ssy, but yes....... everything should be outlined, documented and priced so the customer can make no mistakes on a proper quote/estimate sheet. Once you have the approval and deposit in hand, you then proceed to the next step of designing whatever their hearts desire and you've been paid up front for and not until this document is signed, dated and returned with the required deposit.

    How many times, have you or anyone you know, been duped this way.....
    Work is performed and then you say.... hey, that's not what we talked about, you changed what I thought you said.............. plus the price is different. :frustrated:
    Have a signed quote and there is no getting around it. You're either right or wrong and spelling it all out takes two extra minutes then being vague and having chaos afterwards.
     
  14. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    yes, make a formal quote form now, it'll save headaches in your future (could have saved this one). I'll upload mine for ya to steal if you'd like. Mine's not all that high-tech but gets the job done for me.

    I made it in InDesign, and just place the PSD/EPS into it and export a pdf for the customer to view. Makes it easy to see what proof revision they are on & to have something to sign off on.
     
  15. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

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    I don't think the customers misunderstanding is your fault, but I would definitely include something to the effect of "13 oz. reinforced vinyl" in your quotes in the future especially if you include terminology referring to "welded hems". Anyone with experience in the sign business knows what a welded hem is, but Joe Shmoe may have thought you were welding aluminum panels.
     
  16. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    Ok thanks guys sorry to be p!ssy gino but damn...I guess being in the industry makes you think everyone knows the terminology...although this is the first joe sixpack to be "confused" as to what a banner is
     
  17. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    Mis-communication is common in this field. Make sure it's all in black-and-white on the quote. Had a customer call in wanting a "sign" for above their window, after 5 minutes of "what material do you want this sign made of?" it turns out they wanted a banner... quite a funny conversation looking back on it but everyone wasn't having fun at the time.

    Hopefully the attached quote form helps ya along.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    After doing this so many years... you get to a point that you've heard just about every excuse from customers. That's why I suggested a little more outlining to protect yourself.

    I didn't mean you came across p!ssy to me, but that would be a little overboard to a customer.​

    Like just mentioned.... most people don't use our jargon or terminology. I have a customer that calls everything except truck lettering a banner. I have to guess or figure out if she means wood, banner material, aluminum or Cor-X. To me it makes all the sense in the world.

    Here's one..... have a 4' x 8' panel and I tell Larry, cut it in half. I go out 2 minutes later and I have two 2' x 8's.... wdf... I wanted two 4' x 4's:banghead:

    In our quoting program.... everything [well, most everything] is already itemized with pricing set in place along with complete descriptions. As a backup for situations like yours, I have an item called 'Option #2', 'Option #3 and #4'. Behind these, I can explain what else could be used with complete description. It generally says something like all above information is the same, with some varying details. In this way, the customer cannot deny they weren't informed. It would be they're own stoopidty kicking in at this point. I even have complete sections dedicated to one particular customer which might get special pricing. With all of our customers and huge section of substrates with possible outcomes, it's much easier to put a blanket number for costs for all these items and if I want to change a price... I can do it on the fly.
     
  19. binki

    binki Very Active Member

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    The PRC
    For anything that size we have a contract that clearly states the terms and the proofing process. We don't do anything without a deposit though. Just a lesson learned a long while back. Deposits help qualify the lead.
     
  20. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    All i can say is learn from your mistakes. Deposit before any job that size...
     

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