Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What's your recipe for Application Fluid?

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by fullpoint, Oct 16, 2020 at 3:37 PM.

  1. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

    1,840
    581
    113
    Jun 10, 2016
    Port Coquitlam, bc
    My hp sales rep told me Roland/Epson printers would give me cancer and kill me and everyone in the shop due to the solvents used.

    We of course now turn around and explain to our customers latex is a healthier choice for wall graphics and they won't be breathing in harsh solvent chemicals... Even though we know it's a bs marketing scheme.

    Sales reps tell you what you need to hear in order to buy their product! That's why it's always good to research everything you hear and decide for yourself.

    3M has made billions on their adhesives... What makes 3M vinyl so good is not the material, but the glue behind it. 3MS official stance is a few drops of baby soap, water and alcohol for wet installs.. It's recommended above rapid tac even. I'm also not a chemist... But if you've ever dealt with 3M you know how much testing they do on everything. If 3M says it's OK, I trust them a lot more than I trust the company trying to sell me their $40 bottle of fluid!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 1:01 AM
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. SignosaurusRex

    SignosaurusRex Major Contributor

    8,545
    473
    83
    Mar 7, 2007
    Washington State
    Just a note to those of you that use Windex ®... there are two different types, one with Ammonia and one without. Ammonia is a "no-no" with vinyl application fluids! If you insist on using anything containing Ammonia, you will pay the price at some point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

    966
    251
    63
    Feb 20, 2020
    Florida
    The dollar store stuff is what I always used. It's cheaper to buy that than an empty spray bottle. I used to strip window tint with ammonia, stuff takes it right off but the smell is terrible. Never tried it on decals.
     
  4. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

    966
    251
    63
    Feb 20, 2020
    Florida
    I got rapid tac for etch. I was afraid the window cleaner would dry and leave blue behind the material.
     
  5. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    3,418
    1,909
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    They are naming him Rex. condom.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • OMG / Wow! OMG / Wow! x 1
    • Hilarious! Hilarious! x 1
  6. neutrinocv

    neutrinocv Member

    72
    11
    8
    Feb 17, 2020
    Montreal, QC
    We use Rapidtac with distilled water. ⅓ Rapidtac - ⅔ water. We don't do much wraps and mostly dry installs; we go though less than 8 gallons of Rapidtac a year... Should we need more than that, I would consider making our own mix of dist. water - alc. - soap. 15-20 yrs ago, in a shop I used to work, 2-3 droplets of lemon dishsoap in 1 gallon of water was used as fluid and worked fine. Too much soap can leave white shadowy trails when applying vinyl to a clear surface (plexi or glass); be careful. Also beware of soaps with any of "cream" in them like those "soft on the hands" dishsoaps; they are greasy and affect adhesiveness.
     
  7. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    33,299
    2,325
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    Wow..... all this bickering over some weasel p!ss !!! I used to mix it, but finally got smart. Why waste the time getting this stuff, mixing it up, when ya just charge the customer the same way you charge for the vinyl, application tape, squeegee, weeding time, cutting time, application time, overhead, insurance and just add a few cents in for a mist ??
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    Baby shampoo as a surfactant has the least amount of additives that could affect long term adhesion.
    Water
    Alcohol 70%

    The alcohol content changes based on the conditions. The more alcohol the quicker is dries/flashes. Never used more than about 30%. The same with the baby shampoo except its measured in drops, around 5 per spray bottle.

    On big jobs, I use a big pump garden sprayer with a long hose. On medium jobs, I'll use one like Moze posted and on small ones, a normal spray bottle.
     
  9. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    When your installing 1000 square feet of second surface windows it makes sense.
     
  10. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    3,418
    1,909
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    You still sell this stuff Gino. pissoff.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Hilarious! Hilarious! x 2
  11. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

    966
    251
    63
    Feb 20, 2020
    Florida
    It's all relative. Your price reflects every bit that goes into the job, big or small, it shouldn't matter.
     
  12. neutrinocv

    neutrinocv Member

    72
    11
    8
    Feb 17, 2020
    Montreal, QC
    Agreed; no real economy to be made if you factor in all the costs in you pricing. Unless of course one's prices are rock bottom... We mainly dissolve the Rapidtac to prolong the drying time and it's a quick and easy thing to do; pour ⅔ of water in the pump-spray bottle then top off with Rapidtac: badabing, badaboom !! Otherwise, mixing our own juice I would do it in a big 100 gallons batch once every other month to consider it worth the effort and cost... Not there yet !
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    33,299
    2,325
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    So tell me jester, if you're doing 100 sq ft of window second surface...... do you figure it differently then 200 sq ft...... 400 sq ft....... 1,000 sq ft.. ?? I'm not following your logic. Don't ya just add up all of your costs and charge the customer accordingly ??
     
  14. KatePhillips

    KatePhillips Member

    72
    17
    8
    Jan 22, 2019
    Halifax NS
    Probably nothing listed in these recipes will eat the vinyl glue, but I can absolutely confirm that frustrating clients that ignore our warnings and use fancy car/chrome detailing chemicals will absolutely ruin vinyl glue. Had a dealership continually wash one of our wraps and the glue and vinyl separated around the drip edges - poof, right apart in layers, glue was totally eaten.
     
  15. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    Gino, do you figure how much alcohol, rags or paper towels each job will take and charge accordingly? How about pro rating blades and squeeges on a per job basis? That would be counter productive and cost more than its worth. Instead, most consider consumables when determining a shop rate. Instead of spending $100 for 3 gallons of rapid tac, I prefer free water, a few dollars worth of alcohol, and penny for baby shampoo. On a small job mixing it not worth the time.
     
  16. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

    966
    251
    63
    Feb 20, 2020
    Florida
    Just add on 2% to every invoice for consumables - "shop supplies." Auto shops do it. Trucking companies add a fuel surcharge, others add on environmental fees. We started that about 4 years ago and not 1 person has even asked about it.
     
  17. C5 Service&Repair

    C5 Service&Repair Member

    306
    38
    28
    Jan 14, 2018
    Omaha, NE
    5-10 drops (whatever suits the way you like best) of original blue Dawn per spray bottle of straight water. Shake it well and spray on the vinyl.
    30 years of installs without failure tell me it works just fine.

    Oh and I'm both 3m and Avery certified as an installer.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 7:45 PM
  18. netsol

    netsol Active Member

    750
    103
    43
    Apr 26, 2016
    englishtown, nj
    so, robert, we won't use it at the eye wash stations
     
  19. Rocco G

    Rocco G Member

    125
    17
    18
    Feb 27, 2014
    Pennsauken NJ
    Way back when we rode dinosaurs to work, we got our first plotter, a Gerber 4B plotter - delivered by Fred Flintstone himself. The 3M rep gave us an "official" formula for application fluid. We were told to take a std. spray bottle fill it with warm tap water (long before the bottled water craze) and put in a couple of large drops of Lux dishwashing liquid. Then shake it up, toss out half of it and refill with tap water. I can't seem to find that brand around here anymore and so use baby shampoo. It gets used for large cut graphics and the occasional large digital print, etc. We don't do wraps so I can't comment on that. I have vinyl on an illuminated sign in downtown Philly that's lasted 36-37 years (almost no direct sunlight) so I guess it's OK.

    YMMV
     
  20. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    3,418
    1,909
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    Potassium hydroxide is used to make liquid soap. Lye is another name for it. That is why the suggestions being made as to pouring on an exposed side of vinyl with adhesive. RapidTac was not around when the Gerber first came out so the formulas of baby shampoo and liquid soaps with water were offered up. I use to cut up Ivory soap and put in the water until it was all mixed up but it is easier to just buy RapidTac. Takes me about a year or two to go though a gallon. Or being on the job and realized you did or didn'tt put enough soap in your water mixture.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...