When does a vendor become a competitor?

[signman315]

You get what you pay for.

Large companies will never be able to produce quality, they can't ,their too big and their employee's just don't care enough.

One of my customers is a large beer company, they print their own signs for just about everything, except when they want something done right, then they call me, and I charge accordingly.

I have customers that literally have the same equipment I do but don't have a good designer and print operator thus they still send the jobs my way. Everybody thinks they can buy up some equipment and make it themselves until they realize that it also comes with a price tag for the labor wages and other headaches to operate it...

 

[RPM]

My favorite is when a customer calls and wants you to bid a job with "these specs". It's at that moment you notice your bidding against NorthLight Color who has been playing both sides of the fence for years.....

 

[Bigdawg]

If you are selling directly to my customer base - then you have made yourself a competitor instead of a vendor. There's a local screen printing shop that we used to use - they decided to sell direct to end users at the same prices (or just marginally higher) than we could get products for. We quit using them.

I understand needing to add services to stay competitive, but selling to end users when you claim to be a wholesale or trade only shop is a slap in the face.

 

[TimToad]

I personally dont like messing with highly custom stuff, nevermind the fact that Im not good at it. It makes you too tied to your business and finding employees is that much more difficult.
I think you are discounting the strategy in the process of volume work too. Im really into process and efficiency and this is what I market in the cheap sign market. Not my efficiency or ability (both are lacking) but my knowledge of it.
To each their own but I dont think its good for anyone to have huge companies controlling supply and end product.

I agree with your last sentence but thats about it.

I'm a sign artist and sign maker. My lifelong goal is to make beautiful, effective signs that stand out and separate my client's business image from the rest.

I'm not a widget maker and don't think most folks who choose to enter this craft for its creative opportunities and hands on appeal would find a volume first approach very appealing. I've made and still make a good living at this, but have I no illusions about it being an easy way to get rich.

We do plenty of volume work as well, but thats not the stuff that gets us out of bed in the morning at 6am. Its the interesting, creatively challenging jobs that do that.

 

[BigfishDM]

Well the company doing it NOW is Premiere Color, now they run OC Posters https://ocposter.com/products/vinyl-banner-13oz
Just seems like a slap in the face of his clients.

 

[Gino]

Well the company doing it NOW is Premiere Color, now they run OC Posters https://ocposter.com/products/vinyl-banner-13oz
Just seems like a slap in the face of his clients.

I hafta commend your integrity and ethics in a matter such as this. You are of a dying breed. There doesn't seem to be any loyalty among customers and vendors at any level. The mighty buck is about the only thing the majority of people cater to anymore. Some of the others got off on a tangent about quality of work. There will always be those people who still want a quality product, but they'll still shop it. If ya have a captive audience, good for you, but for the vast majority, they will take whatever they can muster up, regardless of whose toes they step on.

I don't think it's right, but opinions in something such as this is just like a$$holes.... everyone has one.

 

[signman315]

If you are selling directly to my customer base - then you have made yourself a competitor instead of a vendor. There's a local screen printing shop that we used to use - they decided to sell direct to end users at the same prices (or just marginally higher) than we could get products for. We quit using them.

I understand needing to add services to stay competitive, but selling to end users when you claim to be a wholesale or trade only shop is a slap in the face.

Absolutely true...they as a vendor need to weigh the loss of your business as a buyer of raw materials vs what they gain by selling direct....most of them realize that they are lazy salesman and not passionate sign makers and their scheme to sell direct falls short of expectation. They've now lost your business and taken on the headaches of actually making signage. I'm not seeing Grimco hustling carved signs and brand systems, but if you want a mediocre stop sign at a cheap price to arrive tomorrow then they are your people. I don't like making road signs and so I outsource them, even though I could make them in house at a comparable or slightly better margin....but why lose time on a non-interesting low profit job when I could outsource it and direct my time towards better work...."better" defined as overall higher profit and more interesting/fun/creative to produce. Further, selling road signs doesn't really reciprocate future work or word of mouth advertising....but a sexy brand system or road side sign will turn heads and reciprocate more work of it's kind. I always laugh because my company literally does not pay to advertise (haha sign shop that doesn't advertise, ironic) but the word of mouth is HUGE, we are turning down work on the regular. I make it a point to ask people how they ended up at my door and 95% of the time it's a reference from another client. So I say let the big boys get a taste of what we real sign makers do everyday, and then let your point be made on it's own while you wait on the sidelines laughing and looking like a hero when the customer inevitably gets a poor product and has to buy it from a real professional anyway...at which point I'm in the dominant position and can charge whatever I want (within reason of course). My low rate competitors are my best sales tool....

 

[Superior_Adam]

I personally will not spend any money with a vendor if they are also in the business of selling printed goods. They of course will be able to out bid me on any job since they will be getting the materials cheaper.

 

[equippaint]

if you want a mediocre stop sign at a cheap price to arrive tomorrow then they are your people. I don't like making road signs and so I outsource them, even though I could make them in house at a comparable or slightly better margin....but why lose time on a non-interesting low profit job when I could outsource it and direct my time towards better work...."better" defined as overall higher profit and more interesting/fun/creative to produce.

Before the big guys came in for the low hanging fruit, there was good profit in these "non-interesting" jobs. Don't think your creative genius productions are safe forever either. When these guys want into something, they will buy it and throw as much money as needed to make it stick.

 

[Gino]

Unfortunately, yes, they have more pull and power than any 100 individual sign shops..... probably more. Most of these guys when confronted with someone saying we won't do business with them anymore, it's like a mouse peeing in the ocean.

We've paved and paid they way for them to become successful. They learn by all of our mistakes over the years and it took some time, but they managed to get into the game, eventually. Then, ya have forums like this..... where everything is spelled out and all they do is read and decipher what and how they will approach it.

Did ya ever think about, what if I had a million dollars or 3 million dollars to spend on this or that and make this work and that hum ?? Well, they have the millions and many times over that and it's only a drop in the bucket for them to jump in. Then they multiply and keep on buying up more and more other distributors, until we'll all be forced out. It's a big game, but its all about the money...... no talent or creativeness involved, except on how to go about the eventual takeoff. That is their art.

 

[signman315]

Before the big guys came in for the low hanging fruit, there was good profit in these "non-interesting" jobs. Don't think your creative genius productions are safe forever either. When these guys want into something, they will buy it and throw as much money as needed to make it stick.

Fair enough. Though I respectfully have a different opinion and fully value and appreciate what you’re laying down. I came to this forum to continue to learn and build on what I already have and you offer a great perspective that whether I like it or not will certainly serve some value to me at some point. But when they throw their weight around and inevitably swallow the rest of the market I will adapt and adjust on the fly as a smaller and nimbler company and will also inevitably find the appropriate niche for my company/crew.

 

[Johnny Best]

Is Premier Color a reputable vendor for Ink supplies, are they a Chinese Company that is US based.

 

[BigfishDM]

Is Premier Color a reputable vendor for Ink supplies, are they a Chinese Company that is US based.

Can't speak for his reputation, all I know is he sells to people on here and now he competes with them also.

 

[Jun Lanon]

Just curious how you guys view other companies who sell materials and inks, who also offer printing services. I have always been anti-printing since I am a materials guy, I always just refer clients to other clients. After seeing more and more companies like B2B who offers both materials and printing, I was curious what you guys thought.

Another one of the material/ink vendors on here has started a new division for printing services and I thought it was a bad idea to potentially take business away from your clients. So I thought I would see what everyone thinks about buying materials from what is ultimately one of your competitors. Seems like it would be a big negative but maybe times are different now.

All companies treat each other like friends. It all depends on how you market yourself. Just like Mcdonalds and Burger King are always next to each other. When it comes to printing world, we're all buddies as we gather at shows and hang out.