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This is a 6"x6" plastic sign frame for .080 aluminum. Does anybody know where to get these?
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Where can I get these frames?
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This is a 6"x6" plastic sign frame for .080 aluminum. Does anybody know where to get these?
John Butto
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Thank you. Actually looking for just the frames, I want to produce the brushed aluminum signs and cut vinyl. Really have been looking for a source for sign frames and sign trim but never have any luck.
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Yea I have to check with the client on that. Trying to price this job out for a construction company. They supplied this photo of the signs to emulate, but I will be asking him if they need braille, and if they do then I will sub the whole job out. But I still am very interested in locating a source for sign frames or trim like in the attached photo.
John Butto
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They do sell just the frames.
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Oh ok, I'll give them a call then. Sorry for overlooking your suggestion. I've tried getting frames and other semi oddball stuff from companies like that before and always felt like I needed to get to the vendors that they are getting them from...
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Just called and talked with Dave. They do have the frames I'm looking for. Thanks John.
CS-SignSupply-TT
New Member
braille -or- no braille?
Unless the building is GRANDFATHERed, ADA regs REQUIRE braille
Unless the building is GRANDFATHERed, ADA regs REQUIRE braille
CES020
New Member
Sorry, there is no Grandfather clause in ADA signs. Doesn't matter if the building was built 100 years ago or being built next week, it is required by law to be ADA compliant on signs.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Not around here.
If someone is remodeling, then everything must be brought up to meet all building codes and ADA codes, but if you're just redecorating...... signs are what you want them to be. It's not mandatory ADA replacements, because it won't require an ADA walk-through inspection.
CS-SignSupply-TT
New Member
Gino and CES020, yuh gotta love government regulations...WOW! OH MY!
CES020
New Member
You might want to call and find out. My source was the Department of Justice, the people in charge of enforcing it. I was told in no uncertain terms, was anything allowed to be grandfathered in. I said "So I have a customer that has a building that's 30 years old. They need 1 sign updated, are you telling me they have to spend $30K to update all their signs". The person said "There is NO GRANDFATHER CLAUSE. You are either ADA compliant or you are not. If you are not compliant, the federal law says you must become compliant".
I think a lot of people "think" there is a grandfather clause, when it's just not true.
Things are left as old only because no one complains. If one handicapped person called on any one of Gino's buildings he's doing signs for, they would have to become compliant. Period, end of story. You can't say "We're not going to become handicap compliant because we're an old building".
Give the DOJ a call. They'll tell you and that's straight from the source of the people that wrote it.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I'm not gonna look it up right now, cause I have no need to. If you say it's so, it must be true.
However, it doesn't make any sense to me.
So, this corner building has been in operation for let's say 50 years, selling hardware supplies. A man coming down the street, walks in the front door, asks for a hammer and then announces he is gonna sue this place for not being ADA compliant is all it takes ?? They have to put ramps up to the doors, create the wheelchair accessible curbs, elevators to go to the second floor, all new signs, emergency exit signs, emergency lighting and then pay a fine ?? Well, the emergency lighting and signs fall under the fire code, so they SHOULD already be there, but the rest ??
I had several customers with your scenario over the years. I could be wrong, but I was with some of the inspectors and they said different from what you are saying. They could not force [in these cases] one was a restaurant wanting to really fix up the old place, one was a doctor's office, another was...... us, when we bought our building. In the case of the restaurant owner, he said, he just won't fix it up cause it was gonna cost him around $200,000 in ADA codes alone, plus his own remodeling costs, so he opened another place and let this one alone and it's still in complete operation with only ADA signs for his bathrooms. The doctor's office never did the ADA signs or the elevator. Fire Marshall made him get the emergency signs, which we both know aren't ADA. As for me, we don't have a single ADA sign in here and the pavement was already ADA compliant when we got here. We made lots of improvements, but the inspector said all the other things won't be necessary. Why ?? I have no idea, but we didn't pay a cent for anything ADA.
Oh, the guy in charge of the ADA inspections isn't far from our shop and I usually discuss this stuff with him first. That's why I never read your rulebook about this. Never knew of the codes of which you speak. But again, I'm not gonna open a can of worms at this point.
However, it doesn't make any sense to me.
So, this corner building has been in operation for let's say 50 years, selling hardware supplies. A man coming down the street, walks in the front door, asks for a hammer and then announces he is gonna sue this place for not being ADA compliant is all it takes ?? They have to put ramps up to the doors, create the wheelchair accessible curbs, elevators to go to the second floor, all new signs, emergency exit signs, emergency lighting and then pay a fine ?? Well, the emergency lighting and signs fall under the fire code, so they SHOULD already be there, but the rest ??
I had several customers with your scenario over the years. I could be wrong, but I was with some of the inspectors and they said different from what you are saying. They could not force [in these cases] one was a restaurant wanting to really fix up the old place, one was a doctor's office, another was...... us, when we bought our building. In the case of the restaurant owner, he said, he just won't fix it up cause it was gonna cost him around $200,000 in ADA codes alone, plus his own remodeling costs, so he opened another place and let this one alone and it's still in complete operation with only ADA signs for his bathrooms. The doctor's office never did the ADA signs or the elevator. Fire Marshall made him get the emergency signs, which we both know aren't ADA. As for me, we don't have a single ADA sign in here and the pavement was already ADA compliant when we got here. We made lots of improvements, but the inspector said all the other things won't be necessary. Why ?? I have no idea, but we didn't pay a cent for anything ADA.
Oh, the guy in charge of the ADA inspections isn't far from our shop and I usually discuss this stuff with him first. That's why I never read your rulebook about this. Never knew of the codes of which you speak. But again, I'm not gonna open a can of worms at this point.
CES020
New Member
That is 100% what I'm saying and it's quite true. Happens all the time, all over the USA. There are lawyers that chase that stuff that have become notorious for it. I've read a number of articles about the same lawyer, that has no handicaps, that walks into places that aren't compliant and then sues them. A number of places have shut down because they couldn't afford to become compliant.
As far as the ramps and all that stuff- yep, it's also 100% correct. It is REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to be accessible to handicap people.REQUIRED.
By what you are saying, it would allow you to not have handicap access to public places, which is a direct violation of the ADA Act.
I'm not asking you to take my word for it, call the DOJ and ask them.
I had a customer that went through some of it and it was ugly. Not on the sign side, but on the access side. Cost him a fortune to become compliant.
John Butto
New Member
http://labor-employment-law.lawyers...s-act/Finding-A-Lawyer-for-Your-ADA-Case.html
These guys would love to hear the "grandfather" arguement.
These guys would love to hear the "grandfather" arguement.
CS-SignSupply-TT
New Member
My intentions with my GRANFATHERed comment was to stir the pot and help All-SignZ be aware of the morass he was stepping in to. I believe the ADA police would be on him like...well, you know...
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Kinda like my post #4, I was insinuating he was proably gonna have to go ADA rather than what was pictured in the inset.
This other part is news to me. I'm still telling people what the guy around here has been telling me. It's about 98% correct, but ya never know.
CES, do you know what happens to someone if they've been inspected, authorized and given a green light to operate, if they still aren't compliant ??
On our own, we've already installed ADA signs around the property as advertisement for ourselves in a form of advertisement, but we were never told to do it.
According to your stats, just about every Latino store in my county is 100% illegal from still yet another point of view. 
CES020
New Member
Yeah, they don't care what a local inspector does. It's against the law to be non-compliant.
I'm not discussing what people do, only what the law says. I walk into places, state and federal buildings that aren't compliant. If you decide to install non-compliant signs, that's your business. However, ignorance of the law isn't a good defense.
Don't trust me, or your local guy, call the DOJ directly.