which dust collection system for CNC routers?

[iSign]

well... the project of the year for me is moving right along.
I've extended the second floor on the new shop, except a 4x8 opening I will forklift my compressor and 20HP vacuum pump through. The walls and 1st floor ceiling have been insulated, (for sound proofing)sheeted & painted, and my new 100 amp panel box has been installed. The 5x10 Multicam is 1 week away from shipping & my equipment lease is secured with my bank to reimburse my my 50% dep. and send Multicam the 2nd 50% this week.

The 7.5 HP, 80 gal compressor arrives next week, and I should have my electrician back about that time to finish the surface mounted conduit running outlets & equipment disconnect boxes at the required locations.

The dust collection system is the last of the larger pieces of the puzzel, and it's time I made a decision on that. Everything else is pretty high quality stuff, so I don't plan to skimp here, but I don't really know what is enough, and what is overkill.

I'm looking at a few 1.5HP units, ranging between 1000 and 1300 CFM. I have an opportunity to pick up a JET 1100 unit right across town that is supposedly "new, never used" and "partially assembled & complete with all original parts, but no box" He also has some 4" pipe & fittings included, for $450. So far my research tells me the unit is only worth about $350, although freight costs are usually a factor for me.

I would consider offering him less if it is a suitable machine with enough power for my needs.

Can some of you other CNC guys give me some feedback or tell me what you are using?

Thanks in advance!

 

[iSign]

what?
nobody knows anything about this?

 

[cgsigns_jamie]

I'll ask our CNC guy when I get in the office tomorrow. He knows everything about CNC routers.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

isign... i am hesitant to give my input... as i am tired of all of the chuckleheads that hear something contradicting to what they read or heard and even though they have no real life experience they definitely have an opinion.... but here it goes. i am NOT a fan of dust collection systems for cnc routers or as i like to call them dust distribution systems...most of the material that i have routed or clients have routed on the hundreds of cnc routing systems i have setup and trained people to use the material is to fine and it is simply collected and redistributed....so in most cases i do not encourage people to invest in them as most of the time they are off and you/they/ i clean up at the end of the project ok i end of the day...ok end of the week. sweep the table (i really encourage people to sweep versus blow with compressed air for safety and cleanliness reasons...but you are free to develop your own bad habits in fact i have even taken a few dust collection systems and in turn used them to power vacuum hold down systems for clients who have purchased routers without vacuum tables (a whole other discussion). just my personal opinion. congrats on the investment the learning curve can be viscious and others just 'get it' it is a new way of thinking and can not be compared to anything other in the sign industry (do not think because you have done the digital printing learning curve that it is anything similiar) regardless this is a long term investment that will take you to a whole other level in the trade that will separate your work from your competitors and allow you to create things you can not even imagine yet. it has been a pleasure to watch you develop and grow your business over the last many many years

 

[k.a.s.]

Doug,

I personally don't have any dust collection system on my Multicam and never have for some of the same reasons as Dan metioned. But the main reason that I don't is b/c I dont want to put the preasure foot on my router. In my opinion you need to be able to see the bit, when I make clean-up passes or dry runs I somtimes need to test and see where the stuff is cutting. Now I know that maybe thats a dumb reason to not have a DC system but it is just my personal preference and what my experiances have led me to.

Now the downside is that you get a lot more of a mess, I try to clean at the end of the day ar at least the week, athough I don't always keep up on it very well.

My suggestion would be to get a DC system that you could either hook up to the router or just use as sort of a vaccum and then you could see which direction you perfer.

Kevin

 

[iSign]

thanks guys...
I've heard the same opinion that with really fine dust, like from HDU, that the lower end DC systems will let the dust back out again, and that a cyclone unit is superior (& much more costly)

I've started looking at something like THIS

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

Dan and Kas have good points.

I would suggest http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_3hp.php

I have both a DC and Air filter directly above the table to collect the fine dust WHEN I happen to be cutting MDF for kids projects.

I mainly cut plastics and most of all aluminum. I like the DC on while cutting for the added air it help cool the bit along with the Vortex cooler. You can vacuum later, but I like the DC so I do less clean up later and it again help with me not trapping shavings at the bottom of my shoes and tracking it everywhere else.

The other advantage is, if you don't have something to help keep chips away it can get recycled right back into your cutting area and cause gouging on your profile cuts.

You can get away with a Grizzly 2hp for $249, and it will not do too much more to buy a $1500 system. My shop is pretty damn dust free with my Grizzly. You do need ventilation though.

 

[TCC]

Doug
I also run a cabinet shop so my router runs every day all day mosty cutting cabinet parts. But in the cabinet world cutting parts without good dust collection means you get early bit failure from the bit having to recut the same chips over again, which causes extra heat to build in the bit. In turn the bit dulls faster. Again this is cutting cabinet part 3/4" or 1" thick at high speeds in 1 pass. When I am doing 3d carving or sign work my depth of cut is not usually as deep for as long of time. So this may not be as big of issue with what you are going to do. Even with a very large dust collector outside I will still have some dust left on the table at the end of cutting. My Komo router has a dust shroud that opens for the tool changer, so if I want to see what is going on with the bit I can peak in. I mean no disrespect to anyone here, this is just food for thought and only my 2 cents worth. I know you will enjoy the new machine and will wonder how you lived without it very soon. They open up a whole new world of possiblities. What cad/cam programs ar you going to use if I may ask? Have fun and happy routing!

 

[andy]

You need two extractors- one for connection to your spindle assembly and one for bed cleanup.

I use a pair of Ryobi woodworking extractors- one for each task. You don't want mega extraction at the spindle head as it will counteract your vacuum hold down and pull up parts once they have been cut through.

If the JET you have been offered is the same as the brand I am thinking of then it's a German machine which is well worth grabbing. I have a JET air filtration unit suspended in our Router room. This unit is a big rectangular box which fine filters the all the air within the room- it's an extra level of dust removal above and beyond extractors.

In general most of our cutting is done without the extraction foot- it get's in the way and limits your maximum cutting depths. If you are cutting lots of clear plex etc. the base of the extractor can cause scratches

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

i have set up more than a couple routers in cabinet shops. in that environment you could not operate without a dust collection system. but there is a huge difference between the work load and materials used in the different businesses.

if you are going to be doing cabinet work to supplement your sign work without a doubt do some serious research...but i know very few sign shops that do this, i do know quite a few cabinet shops that dabble in signs though...go figure ???

i have also heard of a few shops that report added cooling for aluminum parts but if you are going to be cutting a tremendous amount of aluminum i would encourage 'other means' lol.

if you have an idea of the materials you will primarily be routing this would be valuable information..for example i know many shops with cnc routers that only route HDU, which chips are rare and dust is the rule (but rumor has it this will be changing soon...but i can not elaborate at the present time) i also know shops that only route aluminum and then i know shops that it would be an exageration to say that they route one sheet of aluminum a year....

the fact of the sign world in my opinion is that we will be routing a little bit of everything on a constant unpredictable basis...because of this in regards to CNC routing i feel it is a wise use of my money and my clients money to take more of a generic general approach to add ons and additions to their routing systems versus say a cabinet shop which can predict the bulk of the materials that they will be running...i would never advise a cabinet shop to invest in a router without a tool changing system, if i am consulting or training a sign company and they are concerned about costs in 99% of the systems i have been involved with selling, training, repairing...a tool changer is a luxury not a necessity...just another example of the differences