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Which Printer? HP L28500 or ColorPainter 104"?

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by CJ-NYC, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    I'm the production manager for a shop in Manhattan and I'm trying to get some feedback on these two printers. We're in a very small space (about 20' wide, a brownstone) so I have to make the best use of my space.

    My biggest concern is outgassing. I run two Roland SJ-740s using mild solvent (ECOSOL-MAX) and they print great, but for heavy ink coverage it requires that I roll out the prints and let them outgas for a few hours. With space being as tight as it is already, I'm very keen on getting a printer that will require as little curing time as possible. Often I have my sewing machine operators run the banners through sewing machines, so giving them a fully cured print is critical. I've looked at UV printers, but the prints seem to have duller color. I've also heard that the UV ink simply rests on the top of the material and is therefore more likely to crack. So I'm sticking to latex and solvent inks as possible solutions.

    Whichever machine I get will be almost exclusively for banner printing.

    I have a trusted outside technician who swears by the ColorPainter. He knows my situation and swears that their mild solvents dry immediately and do not require outgassing. What I have now is light solvent, and it sure as hell does require outgassing, so -- can anyone confirm the outgassing requirements of the two machines? Latex printers claim to be dry the moment they come out of the machine. At least one poster here stated that they do require some outgassing, maybe 20 or 30 minutes. Again, can anyone else confirm this? If anyone has (or had) either printer and has an opinion of either one, please share. I'm trying to sort through the marketing hyperbole.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.
     
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  2. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    well for one, you dont have to 'lay the prints out' - you can leave them rolled standing up and they will outgas just as well.
     
  3. Hicalibersigns

    Hicalibersigns Member

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    We have the L25500. We laminate pretty much everything straight from the printer to the laminator. No issues.
     
  4. Robert M

    Robert M Very Active Member

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    You will need to vent that Seiko, for two reasons. The smell from the inks is very strong and because they print so fast they create a fine dust of dried ink.
     
  5. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    Someone here has a ColorPainter maybe they will chime in.
    If it prints as fast as the specs claim it should bury you in banners.
     
  6. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    How can it outgas from a wound roll? Do you loosen the winding at all? It wasn't until I found this forum that I really even heard the term 'outgassing'. I always thought of it as 'curing' -- that the solvent ink needed time to chemically fix itself into the substrate.
     
  7. jayhawksigns

    jayhawksigns Very Active Member

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    I am a latex user here and I don't plan on going back to solvents. Before we bought our L25, we had been looking at the 63" Seiko, and almost pulled the trigger on it until two Grimco reps came in and all but forced me to see a demo of the HP.

    I think that the Seiko would of been a faster machine output wise, but the lack of smell, and being able to process the prints as soon as they come off of the printer is what sold us.
     
  8. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    That's what I've heard, that the smell if pretty bad. I have an exhaust vent with a fan (4' across) -- would that be sufficient, or do I need a special setup? I will be running a laminator/mounter and a dyesub heat press in the same room. Would the ColorPainter throw out enough dust to interfere with them? Do solvent (true solvent) inks dry faster than light solvent inks?

    As for the speed, that's not as critical. My main business is people who need relatively small runs, but they need them to be perfect, gorgeous and they need it right away, lots of handholding. With my older Rolands the bottleneck is still the finishing (and pre-finishing cure time), not the printing itself. So if I had to choose between a machine that prints a bit slower, but the prints are completely dry, and a faster machine with more drying time I would take the former.

    I'm leaning to the latex printer I think.

    Thanks for the input, Robert, much appreciated.
     
  9. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    So you don't let the prints air out at all? What kind of processing are you performing? Laminating and then cutting? Or are you making banners?
     
  10. jayhawksigns

    jayhawksigns Very Active Member

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    Everything that comes off of our L25 goes straight into finishing/assembly. Being it getting laminated, hemmed, or applied straight to a substrate.

    With our JV3 we had to let stuff outgas, not to mention the smell. The smaller Seiko we demoed had the same odor, if not worse.
     
  11. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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    For a "...20ft Brownstone...in Manhattan...", won't the HP latex printers generate a lot of heat? What about the power consumption; 220v required, right? By the way, I was in Manhattan last weekend (first time) moving our youngest daughter into the Herald Towers and preparing her to attend THE KINGS COLLEGE at 52 Wall Street
     
  12. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    Excessive heat? I don't know if it would or not -- why would it? The building is narrow, but we've got length, so I can fit the machine. We've got 220 lines run already for another machine, a Teleios system, so that's not a problem.

    Congratulations! Hope everyone treated you well and that you had a chance to see a show! But please steer clear of the large soda drinks, courtesy of Mayor Doomberg. :Big Laugh
     
  13. bigben

    bigben Moderator

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    I run my L26500 in a 10ftX20ft room and my desk is in that room. The only odor I can smell is the heated vinyl and the temperature in the room go up about 5-7 degree Celsius when I run it.

    I usually wait 2-3 min before do something with the print just to let it cool down.
     
  14. CJ-NYC

    CJ-NYC New Member

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    Yeah, as I read more and more posts around here it seems that the consensus is that the HP latex printers are great. If you don't mind me asking (and if you don't feel comfortable answering, no worries) -- do you hem using a sewing machine, welding machine, or do you tape the edges?

    I notice that you're referencing the L25 - a 60" machine. I would be less nervous getting that machine because my tables are 60" wide -- if I found some outgassing was required I could just throw the printed banners down for a bit. But with a 102" wide print... going to be hairy. Must be nice to have a 80' x 100' warehouse with a smooth concrete floor, LOL!
     
  15. bigben

    bigben Moderator

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    I outsource my hem (sewing machine). But if it's a small job, I'll use tape.
     
  16. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    Go latex and don't look back.

    We never have to wait on any curing or outgassing. All our prints go straight to finishing and no need for any venting. The prints are totally odorless.
     
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