which vinyl manufacturer is best or worst?

[AD&M]

Thanks guys

 

[The Big Squeegee]

I used Oracal 651 because it was recommended to me. After a couple of years using it, I find it is the worst vinyl to work with. It does last good for the most part. I find Arlon to be the easiest to work with for applications with the Big Squeegee. I was impressed with Mactac for wraps but I have not had opportunity to use it.

 

[Sign-Man Signs]

I don't know Dale. I've used 651 for the last 10 years and never a problem. Of course I don't use your the big squeegee either. I recommend 651 to anyone. Arlon is over priced as well as Avery. Avery being the worst.

 

[schurms]

Jerry uses some 2 cent stuff he likes.

 

[Raulrdz]

I started with MacTac and I still have signs that after two years in the hot South Texas sun still look great, even the reds but shipping made it to cost prohibited. I used FDC and Avery A6 for a while with no major problems, except FDC feels rubbery and stretchy. No problems with Oracal 651, the local distributor sells Arlon and I have been using that because there's no shipping costs and it's priced lower than the rest. The new Arlon 5000 series has been formulated to look and feel like Oracal 651.

So I guess Oracal and Arlon are my preferred poison for now.

 

[AD&M]

I bought 50 yards of Oracal 651 so we'll see how it works for me soon.

 

[The Big Squeegee]

I don't know Dale. I've used 651 for the last 10 years and never a problem.

That is what the person said that recommended 651 to me. He even had problems with it. But it was what he used and he is satisfied with it. That don't make it a good product.

Of course I don't use your the big squeegee either. I recommend 651 to anyone. Arlon is over priced as well as Avery. Avery being the worst.

The big problems with Oracal surfaced with the use of the Big Squeegee. If cut vinyl don't let go of the liner very well, as is the case with 651, the graphic gets messed up. most of the complaints I get about messed up graphics are due to using 651 or the Oraguard laminates. I don't recommend any of them as a result.

How much value do you place on your time. I guess if you insist on using 651 and not using a Big Squeegee then your time is not worth much.

 

[B Snyder]

Oracal 651 is a very good calendared vinyl for straight cutting and Gerber Edge printing. Like Sign-man, I've been using it for 8-10 years.

Dale, I think your accusation towards Sign-man was completely uncalled for. Perhaps the type of signs he produces doesn't warrant using a big squeegee. Thousands of people use 651 so when you say "The big problems with Oracal surfaced with the use of the Big Squeegee" one has to wonder where the problem really lies.

There is no problem with Oraguard laminates either. The Oracal line of laminates are terrific products. The problem is that the design of the big squeegee doesn't allow it to work well with Oracal's thin release liner.

 

[S'N'S]

Mostly use Multi-fix and some Calon & Avery here and there.

 

[Sign-Man Signs]

Oracal 651 is a very good calendared vinyl for straight cutting and Gerber Edge printing. Like Sign-man, I've been using it for 8-10 years.

Dale, I think your accusation towards Sign-man was completely uncalled for. Perhaps the type of signs he produces doesn't warrant using a big squeegee. Thousands of people use 651 so when you say "The big problems with Oracal surfaced with the use of the Big Squeegee" one has to wonder where the problem really lies.

There is no problem with Oraguard laminates either. The Oracal line of laminates are terrific products. The problem is that the design of the big squeegee doesn't allow it to work well with Oracal's thin release liner.

Thanks "B" for the support and kind words. Dale always has an issue when it comes to his product not working as it is supposed to. Got to give him credit for selling pvc pipe to people that can do the same job by hand. I wasn't trying to down play his product. Oracal is a quality product and will be and has been around way longer than the Big Squeegee. A smart buisnessman would contact Oracal and find out why it does work well with his product as he claims. Me, I put my money were my mouth is. I ordered one of Dale's Big Squeeges and tried it. Frankly it was slower than me doing it by hand. However, I did find a couple of uses for it around the shop. Childish I know.....

 

[B Snyder]

No problem but don't get me wrong. I think Oracal and Dale make great products but they don't always work well with each other. My issue with Dale is that he places the blame on Oracal when their products don't work well with the B.S. Of course the snide remark about how much you value your time didn't sit well with me either.
Saying Oracal doesn't make a good product because it doesn't work well with the B.S. is like saying framing nails are no good because they dont work well with a finishing hammer.

 

[Sign-Man Signs]

Well stated "B".

 

[synergy_jim]

We use 3M 180c and LG 3910 for prints. The LG is a hp calendered and works great on applications where you don't need air egress. The LG also acts like a cast but way cheaper.

We also use LG's premium grade calendered for cut vinyl apps. We have not had any problems with any of it...

 

[The Big Squeegee]

:Oops: I'm sorry if some people saw my comment as an attack. I didn't mean it that way. I know there are some that will get the Big Squeegee and give it a try and use it for things that are of their own wild imagination that have nothing to do with mounting vinyl. Fortunately, I have customers that give it a more serious consideration and spend a little more time with it.

If you look through the archives you will find a few instances that the person got it and put it away with out much thought. They were delighted with it when they did bring it out and give it a chance. Note: It is not warranted against damage from tires or other simular forms of abuse.

The Oracal issue is one of speed verses cost. It has been my experience that Oracle 651 does not come off the backing very well so, cut vinyl has to be put on at a much slower rate than some of the other brands. 210 and 290 are difficult to use but like 651 it is not impossible. You just need to spend more time working with it. I don't recommend Oracal vinyl because of the bigger learning curve with it.

I know that there are a lot of folks that will stand by their favorite vinyl. I too, favored Oracal but, I have found it harder to work with than some of the other brands.

I have had good luck with clear choice with 651. If anyone has had better success, they have not said anything. Most of the calls I get with problems are related to Oracal. I don't really get very many calls with problems. but what few I do get...

Is it my imagination or am I getting a lot of bad press lately. What is said to me is not what they say in the forum.

Here is a PM I got today

Hi Dale,

Wanted to drop you a quick note about your BS Yard/Sign tool.

We are a very small, fairly new shop. Up until a few months ago most of our jobs were of the smaller nature. Since we signed on a new, large (for our area) client we have been creating larger and larger items. 4'x16' is probably not large to a lot of shops but it is to us.

Anyway, several weeks ago we purchased a Big Squeegee. I had really wanted to try it, but being a small shop our budget is always razor thin. I bit the bullet anyway.

Now, without offending, I've never been a big believer in the "value" proposition. As an Engineer I guess I look at the cost factor instead.

That said, the Big Squeegee has really come through for us using the "value" equation.

We now own 6 of your products. Yesterday I had to premask 20 fairly long graphics. Using the BS, it took me but a fraction of the time it used to with a 4" squeegee, but more importantly there were zero and I mean zero wrinkles, bubbles, etc.

What we ended up doing is slicing 4 of the squeegees into varying widths so that they more closely match the graphic width being applied. We now have a 20 and 6, 18 and 8, 16 and 10 and a 14 and 12. We find this to be an excellent solution. It allows us to apply say a 14" graphics by myself very quickly with excellent results and since the squeegee closely matches the graphic width I am able to get some decent pressure on it with only one hand.

While I have been unsuccessful in getting the graphics to apply by removing just part of the liner and pushing the rest off like the videos, it still has saved a bunch of time.

What I find fascinating is that you seem to have the only "wide" squeegees out there.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know we are a believer in your product and plan to use them for a long time to come.

Everyone has their own needs. This customer obviously needed more sizes than I offer. I do get mail similar to this quite often.

I guess I better get back to what I was doing.