Who is at fault....................??

[Gino]

Was it us ??

Had two electric signs to do for a customer which had track lettering on it. We did the whole job except for supplying the letters, cause she said she had special letters from corporate. They were blue instead of the normal black.

I asked her for some of the letters so we could put the track on and be sure, since I didn't know where they came from.

She gave me two letters and said that's all I get, since she doesn't want to take a chance of our losing her expensive letters.

We put everything together, gave ample space in case some letters were so ever slightly larger and not too much in case some were smaller. Checked the tracks with her supplied letters at both ends, middle and in-between that, so each line was checked at five pints on each line.

Installed the faces and went on our merry way.

• Two weeks later, yesterday in fact, she calls and says.... Gene, these letters don't fit.
• Wha ?? They did when we had them here and I showed you that day on your lot when we put the faces in.
• Well, some don't fit, now.
• Wha ??
• Yeah, most of them fit, but some don't.
• Okay Debbie, it seems you have some letters from corporate that aren't all made the same.
• Take your letters and place them on a flat surface a bunch at a time. I'll bet some are much bigger than others. If that's the case, you'll need to sand some of them to the same size as the others which actually fit.
• Can you do this for me today ??
• Why do you want to spend money with me to do this, when your husband is a handyman ?? He can do it for free.
• Why would I have to pay you ?? The letters don't fit in the track you put on.
• Yes, Debbie, some of them don't fit, but the ones that are the same measurement as the two samples you gave me fit, which you already said was most of them. We didn't supply the letters, they were yours and we never saw all of them ahead of time. I'm afraid this cost will be on you.
• Alright, I'll talk to my regional supervisor and see what they think.

Haven't heard anything, yet.

 

[J Hill Designs]

corporate is at fault

you set the tracks to 'spec' (supplied letters)

edit: and all track letter manufacturers have a 'blue ink' option...

 

[threeputt]

No brainer, client's fault.

Probably though the best resolution to this will be that your shop will shave them down at no cost. One of those things.

But let them know, they owe you one.

 

[Billct2]

Her mistake, but as you know it's always our fault.
I'd tell her if it's a real issue bring the letters to the shop and I'll shave them.

 

[d fleming]

And the Regional Manager is sooooo happy this dingbat is ringing his/her phone yet again.

 

[Gino]

And the Regional Manager is sooooo happy this dingbat is ringing his/her phone yet again.

Got that right. When initially getting this job, corporate, regional supervisors and anyone else involved with this woman couldn't stand working with her because she always hides behind someone else making her mistakes.

Something I left out which might make some of you understand better, why I won't do it free.

She's a real b@ll buster. She nitpicks about everything.

She doesn't want to get a permit.
Why ??
Cause it's on my own property and I don't need one....... oh brother.
Can you come back tomorrow, I'm expecting customers to need those last coupla parking spaces.
Exactly what time will you be here ??
If you can't have it up by this Friday, I'm gonna sue you and get someone else to instal it.
Where are the rest of your guys ??
Go in for water.... for drinking and she charges us $1.25 a bottle.
Constantly watching out the window and giving ugly looks...... ahhh, that's not fair, she's already ugly, so I guess it was just her natural look.
Found out when going in for the water, she lied to us about getting a permit. When I went in for the water I asked to see it and she leveled with me, that she lied to me and never got one.
Oh great, here's hoping the township people aren't out and about. This place is about 4 blocks from the Township Building..... and I know all those people in there.

 

[John Butto]

Fault?

Gino, I had four children, when milk was spilled was that their fault or mine. Did I put too much milk in the glass, did I use the wrong glass, did I put it to close the their arms so as to spill. Did they not pay attention to the milk and were playing around and that cause the spill or just their age and they need these things in life to learn. Why look to who was at fault, why get angry and frustrated. I was the one who usually cleaned it up because I know that if they did it there would be a bigger mess. So you see where I am going, you were the grownup in this situation by being the one who should know all the professional details and it seems there is a mess that needs to be cleaned up and the other person is not capable. So get the paper towels Gino because the liquid is spreading fast. And the only satisfaction that I received from the spilt milk ordeals is that now my children are parents and they have to deal with spilt milk. One further note, apple juice is worse than milk to clean up.

 

[signage]

After post #6 it is your fault. You installed the sign illegally (not permitted properly{no permit}). At that point you should have informed her that the sign would be coming down at her expense! You are the professional sign person and know that signs installed in that area need permits! When you got to the location you should have asked to see permit! You didn't an continued to do the work after finding out she hadn't gotten the permit! Now the point of the letters it seems you should have informed her that you would not be responsible for letters fitting if they had any variance in size being you did not supply them, I would have had that on the contract for doing this job. Any time my customers is supplying items I let them know that I can not be responsible for the items they are supplying. Did you have any thing in your contract about permitting and customer supplied items?

 

[Jackpine]

You set the tracks to 'spec' for their supplied letters. It's not your fault but if they are a good customer I would sand the others to size on a horizontal bench sander. This stuff is not unusual in our society today. They already know they are "frugal"or cheap.

I just just read post #6.......

 

[Bigdawg]

John - that's a great analogy. I like it

Gino - were the letters she gave you both the same size? If not, I think you may bear a little responsibility (besides installing an unpermitted sign) for not making her aware of it. We spec the letter piece size when we do a track - even if they supply it. That way there is NO question what will fit. Did you do that on the quote?

Ultimately, we would have just sanded them down for her and call it a day. Even if she is ugly, has warts and gave our guys the stink-eye all day long. That has nothing to do with how we would conduct ourselves... call it rising above the situation.

 

[ddarlak]

i would say it's your fault for getting involved with this person to begin with.

if something is out of your control, then walk away. they will come back when they realize you were right.

chit will happen if there is even a remote chance that it will.

 

[Gino]

John - that's a great analogy. I like it

Gino - were the letters she gave you both the same size? If not, I think you may bear a little responsibility (besides installing an unpermitted sign) for not making her aware of it. We spec the letter piece size when we do a track - even if they supply it. That way there is NO question what will fit. Did you do that on the quote?
Yes, it all revolved around 9" track letters. I only saw two of her letters, which fit perfectly. The way she explained it, some are as much as 1/8" to 1/4" too big. To me, that's not my problem.

Both letters supplied were identical in size. No reason to believe the others wouldn't be within a 1/32" of the two supplied. Thus as I mentioned, why we made the space large enough to accept bigger ones and yet still close enough smaller ones wouldn't fall out.

As for the sign not being permitted, it had originally been Okayed by the township people, but the lady drug her feet getting letters to me. This was actually to take place last fall, and we got the frame and everything in place, but not the faces. We put old blanks in til she could get us the letters. Then, she only got the letters to me about two months ago. Around here, a permit is only good for 30 days, then it has to be re-issued. Believe me, I know this for a fact. They will however, turn their head if 4 weeks turns into 5 or 6, but not 8 months later. I informed her she had to have permits again,... or we couldn't finish the sign. So, as for the sign being legal it was, just not in the right time frame. Another one of her finer points as I've already mentioned.

Ultimately, we would have just sanded them down for her and call it a day. Even if she is ugly, has warts and gave our guys the stink-eye all day long. That has nothing to do with how we would conduct ourselves... call it rising above the situation.
Sorry, but I don't feel being made to do her dirty work, being lied to my face and possibly putting us in jeopardy is considered rising above anything. She broke the rules, not me and I don't feel like being a parent or a better person. With this thinking, I am actually admitting I/we did something wrong and with people like this, I don't take those extra responsibilities as being mine.

All in all..... it's one thing to play Monday night quarterback and try to figure out what I did wrong, but other than what ddarlak said.... I don't think I did anything wrong and I certainly don't consider I short-changed her whatsoever.

She was being a d!ckette and it backfired on her. Even her husband didn't want to sand them down for her because he knew something would get blamed on him. You just have to be in the same general vicinity [within a 75' radius] and your stomach just starts to get queasy.

 

[Joe Diaz]

it's one thing to play Monday night quarterback and try to figure out what I did wrong...

Well to be fair, you did ask for opinions on the matter. (also I think the correct phrase is "Monday morning quarterback")

Sounds like you already know the answer to your own riddle. "who is at fault" What do you need us for?

 

[johnnysigns]

Lose Lose situation.

 

[Gino]

Sound's like you already know the answer to your own riddle. "who is at fault" What do you need us for?

Yes, I think I do know the answer. However, it's not a riddle. It's an actual situation and I wanted a few more pairs of eyes, brains, opinions or views.

Joe, try to remember, this place is not a place for who needs who only. It's also a place to re-establish with peers with similar problems/situations and discuss things in a fashion I or you haven't thought of perhaps.

I also think when a problem arises for an old timer or a young whippersnapper, the answers are great so in the future, others can learn from old mistakes and great answers, no matter whose answers they are. It just helps to sort out the bad answers form the good answers. That's the real key to a place like this.

 

[John_jcmotorsportsnj]

That really sucks when you know you did everything right(besides not seeing the permit before walking onto the job site with the product.) And you still are getting a headache from the customer. You know you were right and she was wrong. I would make sure to get paid in full then talk to the customer about the track letter problem. Sounds like you have a real crazy customer. Good luck.

Quick question. If she calls you next year to ask about another sign(maybe at another location) what will you do different?

 

[TammieH]

The Customer

The customer for sure she should have given more letters in the first place, although... who would have ever guessed that the letters were not all the same size.

 

[Gino]

That really sucks when you know you did everything right(besides not seeing the permit before walking onto the job site with the product.) And you still are getting a headache from the customer. You know you were right and she was wrong. I would make sure to get paid in full then talk to the customer about the track letter problem. Sounds like you have a real crazy customer. Good luck.

Quick question. If she calls you next year to ask about another sign(maybe at another location) what will you do different?

I already got paid, so that is of no concern.

I honestly don't think it's a crazy woman I have, but more of the way ALL people are acting these days. No matter how much money you make, people seem to be at the end of their ropes and are reaching out for anything they can. People are always blaming others for their own mistakes or shortcomings. People of all genders, colors and age all have an axe to grind and they take it out on whomever is the closet at the moment. I try to keep this in mind, but it seems to be happening more and more these days.

That's why many of my threads lately have been about situations that have come up and I don't always have a good answer or reason, but need to react lickity-split.

I'm hoping that others coming across some of these same kinda situations might think back to some of these odd threads.


As for her next store, I'll either be busy or not available.... unless she pays triple my normal prices. I get paid well to be spanked in public.

 

[GAC05]

I'd blame Bush....
If the economy was doing better corp would have more money for these kinds of projects and she might not be squawking about a few extra dollars to get it done right.

wayne k
guam usa