Gino
Premium Subscriber
Okay, it's not a wrap..... I invite you to display the graphics job you did on this particular vehicle and then two or three others of your own.
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Who owns the Logo?
- Thread starter WestCoastMapGuy
- Start date
Okay, it's not a wrap..... I invite you to display the graphics job you did on this particular vehicle and then two or three others of your own.
WestCoastMapGuy
New Member
I don't design many logos but rather vectorize customers' Jpg's. I want my customer to have the cleanest logo possible. To me, it's all about the customer and not about me.
I don't post the designs on the site as I don't claim to be a designer. I am sign shop and installer. I have been in the graphics/newspaper business since 1993 and this is the first time this request has come across my desk. I have seen other designers design a logo, charge the customer for it, then refuse to let the customer use the vector images. This is not so much about me getting p'd off as it is about the customer getting the rights to what he paid for.
On another note I created a map for a ski resort. I sold the map the the municipality. Should I demand that they have my name on every map the produce? I say no. They paid me for the job...it's theirs now.
I don't post the designs on the site as I don't claim to be a designer. I am sign shop and installer. I have been in the graphics/newspaper business since 1993 and this is the first time this request has come across my desk. I have seen other designers design a logo, charge the customer for it, then refuse to let the customer use the vector images. This is not so much about me getting p'd off as it is about the customer getting the rights to what he paid for.
On another note I created a map for a ski resort. I sold the map the the municipality. Should I demand that they have my name on every map the produce? I say no. They paid me for the job...it's theirs now.
WestCoastMapGuy
New Member
I really don't know what your asking Gino. I don't design logos I just "vectorize" them so the are clean and scalable.
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
WestCoastMapGuy
New Member
Thanks for all the posts. I will visit the Lawyer$$
Billct2
Active Member
Really? I will have to look more closely.
So everytime a logo is used the designer should get credit?
Newspaper ads, business cards, truck letterig, TV commercial?
And jobs that contain designs and/or logos that aren't original should never be posted in a portfolio or online.
WestCoastMapGuy
New Member
:ROFLMAO:
What's up with this?? People are saying that I own things that I don't think I do. The lawyer will clarify this for me so I can conduct all my future business accordingly.
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
A newspaper ad is not the same thing as a portfolio piece that promotes your design/production skills... not even in the same realm.
This designer feels you are using HIS work to promote YOUR business. If he retains his right to promotion, your flawed policy should not intrude on his rights (flawed as they may be). I believe he has a legitimate beef. Whether he is being a whiny weenie or not is none of my business, just like I don't think you are a jerk for having your policy. I also think you have a right to display production work, but if asked, I do think it's good business to be courteous.
This designer feels you are using HIS work to promote YOUR business. If he retains his right to promotion, your flawed policy should not intrude on his rights (flawed as they may be). I believe he has a legitimate beef. Whether he is being a whiny weenie or not is none of my business, just like I don't think you are a jerk for having your policy. I also think you have a right to display production work, but if asked, I do think it's good business to be courteous.
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
It means you should have went to a copyright attorney first, and then pass on your newly found wisdom...
GoodPeopleFlags
New Member
Posting work that contains a logo that you didn't design IN YOUR PORTFOLIO implies that you did the design. Just clarify on the pic that you didn't design the logo but merely reproduced it. Nothing wrong with showing that you can reproduce artwork but don't imply that you did it. And give credit to who did.
If you made a banner with lots of corporate logos, then no, you wouldn't need to give credit to all of the designers to all of the corporate logos. No one is going to think you did them. You would just be showing your banner making capabilities.
If you made a banner with lots of corporate logos, then no, you wouldn't need to give credit to all of the designers to all of the corporate logos. No one is going to think you did them. You would just be showing your banner making capabilities.
Joe Diaz
New Member
Here maybe this well help: Don't look at it as an argument over who owns the art, Look at it as an argument over false advertisement, or taking credit for work you did or didn't do.
If you mainly just do install work and not much design work, you should do everything you can to represent yourself as an installer and not the designer of those jobs, because that is the service you are advertising. Otherwise, it's a little dishonest, because if you gain work because the customer is attracted to design work you didn't create, you are benefit from someone else's hard work. You have to ask yourself, how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?
It's not that big of a deal to just state on your site, "customer supplied art" , or just leave out the work that you didn't design, is it? (especially if the artist is requesting that) Seems like a pretty reasonable request. I certainly wouldn't lawyer up over that. Is it really worth all that?
If you mainly just do install work and not much design work, you should do everything you can to represent yourself as an installer and not the designer of those jobs, because that is the service you are advertising. Otherwise, it's a little dishonest, because if you gain work because the customer is attracted to design work you didn't create, you are benefit from someone else's hard work. You have to ask yourself, how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?
It's not that big of a deal to just state on your site, "customer supplied art" , or just leave out the work that you didn't design, is it? (especially if the artist is requesting that) Seems like a pretty reasonable request. I certainly wouldn't lawyer up over that. Is it really worth all that?
sardocs
New Member
I am the whiny wiener that we’re discussing in this thread. I would have stayed out of the thread but there is only so much drama I can ignore. I was contacted by the westcoastmap guy last week asking me to send him a vector version of a design I had done for a clients horse stable business. I tried to explain that although many clients like to ”adopt” a design
as their own logo, in fact they might not own that design and if they do, they have been supplied with the design on a disc or a flash drive in all the necessary formats. If they don’t have anything other than a low res jpg, they probably don’t own it. I told him our policy is to charge a File Transfer fee for digging up the archived design, and creating a pdf, eps or jpg file for his use. Then I made a trip to his web site to see what kind of stuff he does. Under a heading called Labels and Decals he has included only three examples. Two of them are designs I did for a local contractor who has a redimix plant and an excavating contracting business. The client owns the designs, but seems to loose the files regularly. That’s why we’ve got a File Transfer fee in the first place. I just mentioned I thought it was a bit misleading to have those particular images displayed in that way. It isn’t like there are 20 examples of decals he’s made, just 3, my 2, and 1 other that looks kinda infringy. He replied that he does’nt question where a logo or design comes from. Here is a screenshot of the page. I would like to add that I've done over 30 trucks and excavators, graders etc for this client that are seen everywhere in our small community.
as their own logo, in fact they might not own that design and if they do, they have been supplied with the design on a disc or a flash drive in all the necessary formats. If they don’t have anything other than a low res jpg, they probably don’t own it. I told him our policy is to charge a File Transfer fee for digging up the archived design, and creating a pdf, eps or jpg file for his use. Then I made a trip to his web site to see what kind of stuff he does. Under a heading called Labels and Decals he has included only three examples. Two of them are designs I did for a local contractor who has a redimix plant and an excavating contracting business. The client owns the designs, but seems to loose the files regularly. That’s why we’ve got a File Transfer fee in the first place. I just mentioned I thought it was a bit misleading to have those particular images displayed in that way. It isn’t like there are 20 examples of decals he’s made, just 3, my 2, and 1 other that looks kinda infringy. He replied that he does’nt question where a logo or design comes from. Here is a screenshot of the page. I would like to add that I've done over 30 trucks and excavators, graders etc for this client that are seen everywhere in our small community.
Attachments
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I also said, You may not be a whiny wiener either...
I enjoyed the previous OPs post about being all about the customer, but should have added as long as it's easier for him to make a buck.
Sardoc, you have a legitimate beef. I think your resolution is very fair.. and to be honest, you are being the bigger man about it.
The OP does not need a lawyer to be courteous and accommodating. And since he admits he is not a "designer" he does not lose anything by adding your reasonable request.
I enjoyed the previous OPs post about being all about the customer, but should have added as long as it's easier for him to make a buck.
Sardoc, you have a legitimate beef. I think your resolution is very fair.. and to be honest, you are being the bigger man about it.
The OP does not need a lawyer to be courteous and accommodating. And since he admits he is not a "designer" he does not lose anything by adding your reasonable request.
Graphicholik3
New Member
If your company website purely exhibits you have nothing to do with any type of design than your fine, and you could credit the designer to make him extra happy. If your website exhibits you design & produce wraps than I would just be cool with the designer, and figure out a solution that is going to benefit you both like credit him for the design in a description of the image. But it also depends on the terms the designer & your client agreed to as far as who owns the rights to the artwork. And in that case I would deal with the designer not the client. We all know how clients like to screw over designers, period. They will tell you what you want to hear, but it would be in your benefit to network with the designer in hopes of getting anymore print work that comes his way.
Other than that I see no possible need for you to remove the image unless you were infringing on being the creator of the design itself. Than the right thing to do would be remove it. But all you're doing is showcasing your wrap job (production/installation) and I don't see anything wrong with that!
Other than that I see no possible need for you to remove the image unless you were infringing on being the creator of the design itself. Than the right thing to do would be remove it. But all you're doing is showcasing your wrap job (production/installation) and I don't see anything wrong with that!
inthesignbiz
New Member
See?
There is always two sides to the story.
Shouldn't take sides without all of the information - shame on me.
Deep apologies for the whine bag thing.
There is always two sides to the story.
Shouldn't take sides without all of the information - shame on me.
Deep apologies for the whine bag thing.
WestCoastMapGuy
New Member
I have realized here that there are 2 issues; 1/Legal 2/Moral I will do the moral thing and change my website (time permitting) to reflect the fact that I don't design the logos or anything else for that matter, rather that the site shows the installations. I will add the "Customer Supplied Artwork" to everything not created my me. All I wanted was general consensus and I got that and more. Thank you.
