Why is no one interested in new Mimaki printers?

[PrintItBig]

With the JV33 being one of, if not the, most popular solvent / eco solvent printers over the last few years, why does no one seem to be interested in the JV400 in either latex or particularly SUV format?

As I understand it, Mimaki are probably the 3rd most popular manufacturer of printers of this type after say Roland and maybe HP. Yet they've just released the successor to their most popular model, the JV33, an immensely popular model, using 2 completely new ink sets and people just seem indifferent.

Trying to find any online discussion in any forum about the SUV variant is near on impossible. At best, someone asks a question and then gets no response.

Why are people not interested in these models? Am I missing something? Are they just too expensive? Are there just better out there? What's going on?

 

[k_graham]

I did research the print and cut model Mimaki, versus Roland. and HP.

The Mimaki properly printed photos where transparency had been added, the Roland samples were sent from 2 different dealers with white boxes on the transparency's . One of those dealers also sold Mimaki and those prints came without the white boxes and the dealers had been told this was why I was sending the particular file requiring a APPE PDF RIP. The Mimaki also had a smaller Delta Variation thus was printing better than the Roland.

The HP printed correctly but the RIP is additional so adding it plus cutter makes it a 30,000.00 device vs 20,000 for the Mimaki - in our remote location. The Roland could likely print correctly if purchasing an optional RIP.

In the end I found a seller of wide format machines to engineers that actually sends service to our area several times a year so service would be far less when required. The only machine they handled was HP and had HP latex in their larger centers, thus an HP is ordered. Now I will also justify it by saying it is more ecological and prints dry immediately for laminating then cutting and has user replaceable print heads. But I actually listed to someone on this group that said - buy local for the day it needs fixing.

Ken

 

[P Wagner]

I think that it a combination of the fact that the machines were initially announced almost two years ago (Fespa Barcelona Feb 2012) and have been repeatedly delayed, and the major unique selling proposition for the latex model (white ink) is a non-starter for many users of roll-to-roll machines. Also they are fairly pricy (north of $30k in the USA).

 

[4R Graphics]

I owned a JV3 and now own a JV33 and I love my mimakis they are true work horses.

However if I was going to get into latex printers I would go with the HP.

The main reason is the cost why would I buy a printer from mimaki that cost $30,000+ that is still new technology (however mimaki did wait so they probably have a lot of bugs worked out) when I can buy a 2nd gen HP for half the price.

Not sure about maintenance costs as I really dont care at this point when I need a new printer (at least a year or two) then I will research.

My 2 cents is they are way over priced at least that's why I wouldnt buy one.

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

We have a Roland vp540, just recently we purchased another (2nd) printer to pick up some production slack and have a take up. After all was said and done we got a Miami cjv30. It's pretty awesome. I've run flatbed printers, a hp latex, the Roland and now the Miami. I love the color quality and range of the Miami over the Roland but the hp has always blown me away.
Not sure why people would not want a Miami. Has been great for us, I've switched a mojo ritzy of our production work to our new one and use the Roland for overflow.

 

[SightLine]

I think 4R pretty much hit it. We are interested but at the price they are asking, not really so. They jacked the prices by 10k, introduced new not as well known heads and new ink technologies. The new Mimaki machines are overpriced. We are in the same boat as well - had a JV3 for years, replaced with a JV33. I've run other brands as well and most other machines I've looked at close are just plain flimsy in comparison. The Mimakis are rock solid proven workhorses with excellent media takeups. Up to now to they are relied on proven Epson (expensive and some say overpriced but we run out JV33 daily and the current DX5 is still 100% perfect nozzle test going on 2 years) heads. Now they are tossing Ricoh (or whatever brand they are) heads in and moving away from the traditional solvent inks. I'm absolutely confident the build (chassis, etc) quality is still the same excellent machines Mimaki has always put out. I'm just unsure about switching up to some new ink technology and the uncertainty of some new type head and paying 30% extra for that uncertainty.

With JV33 (CJV) and the much older JV3 machines aftermarket part options are plentiful as well as aftermarket inks, and 3rd party RIP support. We do not use Rasterlink, we use Flexisign Pro since we have 3 different printers and 2 different cutters (all different brands). Flexi perfectly runs all of it with a seamless print/cut workflow. If we are forced to add some other RIP then our production process gets stupid. If we are forced to use only OEM ink and parts then we are spending much more. Of course we do use many OEM parts - many aftermarket parts are inferior quality but we do use quality aftermarket ink (with zero problems - Triangle) at less than half the cost of OEM ink. When you go through literally many gallons of ink per month as we do, that savings is very significant and much less wasteful (and less labor) with not swapping and tossing dozens of cartridges every month.

I want to like Mimaki's latex and their new SUV hybrid UV Solvent machines but at their price point and uncertainty I just cannot consider them. Until they are a little more "proven" in the market and they drop the prices to a reasonable amount for a 63" machine (heck Mimaki, sell them for 4k less if the buyer does not want Rasterlink) they are just not an option for us. Make it available without Rasterlink (if thet will reduce the cost) and sell it for under 20k and I'm game to take a much closer look.

 

[Bly]

You're right. I'm not interested.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Where I bought my HP latex printers from said they have a Mimaki latex sitting in the corner that neither them, nor Mimaki, can get working properly. They said they don't really know of anyone using them or having luck with them. It'll be interesting to see how the new one with orange and green ink works?

 

[Plopez210]

Hp 26500/28500 792 inks

HERE IS A SELLING POINT ON THE HP LATEX...

3M OFFERS THEIR 7 YEAR MCS WARRANTY ON THE 792 INKS
SO ITS DEFINITELY A PLUS SINCE NOT MANY PRINTERS OR INKS GET THIS WARRANTY

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs666lB8COrrrrQ-

somewhere between the 789 and 792 something changed

I run a hp L25500, A hp L28500 , a cet xpress 1000 and a mimaki jv33

all are mean *** printers and get the job done my fav is my 28500 its fast as **** and have had print heads go thru 15 liters of ink with few nozzles out and no issues

 

[SightLine]

Most of the Mimakis do qualify for the 3M Performance guarantee as well as many other brands. 3M puts the info in a few semi obscure places and changes up between their MCS (matched component system) and performance guarantee programs. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...s6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=PG Warranty Matrix.pdf

15 liters of ink and losing a "few" nozzles is not terribly impressive in my personal opinion. Yes, it is convenient that the HP printheads are essentially disposable but they do have an extremely short life compared to the DX5 in the JV33. DX5 printhead will cost $1500 and on a JV33 can be changed yourself in about 20 minutes. However if the machine is properly maintained the head will easily last 2+ years with literally many hundreds of liters of ink gone through it. In just the past month I have run roughly 35 liters (nearly 4 sets of 2 liter per color bulk boxes) through our JV33 on a nearly 2 year old head which still has a 100% perfect nozzle test and prints beautifully and quite fast in production resolutions.

Another recent plus for Mimaki is they also just opened 3 new (in addition to their Atlanta office) factory offices here in the USA in New Jersey, California, and Texas giving them much faster and better direct service in the USA. Also - their new JV400SUV does sound very interesting for sure. The benefits of traditional solvent with the instant dry and finishing (via a UV curing component) like latex has. My understanding is their new SU100 ink for that machine is in process getting 3M MCS qualified now as well as their latex inks which they reformulated earlier this year to address some of the issues they had with the first generation of their latex ink.

My hope is that soon, the aftermarket companies will start releasing more aftermarket inks for these new Mimakis. Of course then the 3M warranties go away but is signifies greater acceptance of the new machines in the market and as I said hopefully Mimaki will start reducing the prices in order to increase the machine sales. The JV400-160SUV is the one I'm most interested in personally but as I said earlier - not at the prices they are wanting. I'm not 100% Mimaki and have nothing against the HP machines. I just like to point out that they are not necessarily the best thing since sliced bread is all. If our JV33 catastrophically dies tomorrow I'd be looking very close at the HP's as well as other options like another JV33.

An interesting read from FLAAR http://www.large-format-printers.or...400-130SUV-Mimaki-JV400-160SUV-solvent-uv.php

 

[omgsideburns]

Yes, it is convenient that the HP printheads are essentially disposable but they do have an extremely short life compared to the DX5 in the JV33. DX5 printhead will cost $1500 and on a JV33 can be changed yourself in about 20 minutes.

It sounds like you're alluding to the price and ease of service being an advantage over the HP. I believe the print heads on the HP latex run about $110/ea. There are six heads, they can be changed as needed. They are a cartridge design, very simply replaced in minutes without any tools. At that price, it's not even worth the time trying to save a dying head.

 

[rjssigns]

With the debate started regarding head replacement costs my curiosity is piqued. Forget about the ease of replacement with HP. What is the true cost over "X" amount of time between HP heads and a DX5? I don't think anyone has done the study.

 

[HulkSmash]

Hp Latex is a proven printer... where mimaki isn't. Yet it's still over double the price. They need to rethink their
pricing scheme if they ever want to compete in the latex market.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

The head cost is huge... when you factor time down.

The Average DX5 head is $4,000 - $5,500 professionally installed, A complete headset on the HPs is $600 give or take a few dollars. We are averaging 1 Head set a year, most DX5s make it about 3 years under heavy use.

At 3 Years HP is roughly $1800 Self Serviced, minimal Downtime Even worst case 2 sets per year you are still only $3600
At 3 Years DX5 is roughly $4000 Installed, Lengthend Downtime

 

[nashvillesigns]

new mimaki..

yup. not needed. own one
a JV 33

the new printers are too close to the old ones. unless they come with a flux capacitor, i aint botherin....

 

[SightLine]

If someone is paying $4000 to $5500 to have a new DX5 head installed in a JV33 they are getting completely and totally raped and deserve to pay that. A Mimaki OEM DX5 head is around $1800 to $2500 depending on where you get it (non-oem ones can be had for under $1000 but generally require downgrading the machine firmware to work). On a JV33 it is literally a 20 to 30 minute job tops to replace the head and there is almost zero alignments needed afterwards. If a "professional" tech is charging (figuring $2500 head cost) $1500 to $3000 for that 30 minute job then something is very seriously wrong. I'll put this way - if any JV33 owner in the continental USA needs a head replaced, for $5500 I will personally source the OEM head, fly to your location and install it. The one catch of course is the lengthened downtime but that is really only the case if you cannot find a head and/or are relying on a tech to come install it and have to wait on them. Yes the JV33 with a toasted head is dead in the water until the head gets replaced, so is an HP if you do not have a spare head handy. If one is mildly mechanically inclined and competent they can source the head (pay for next day air just as you might for an HP with a sudden dead head and no spare handy) and install it themselves literally in under 30 minutes. Plenty of JV33 and CJV30 owners already have and all quickly state how simple and quick it is. Realistically, with professional tech install a head replacement on a JV33 should be no more than $3000 tops unless there is no tech within driving distance.

Realistic numbers put the overall head costs far far closer. I do also agree that the HP latex machines are mature and proven machines and that Mimakis latex is still immature and unproven in the long run and of course way way overpriced to be even remotely competitive with the HPs.

 

[fresh]

the little Mimaki UV printers were all over the place at the NBM Show in Philly. They are really cool for making promo items and that spot gloss was soooooo neat. But I'd have to sell a LOT of little chotchkies to make it worth the cost. If we were a bigger shop, I'd consider it, but right now they are just nice to look at.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

In AZ there is only one certified tech company and on the mutohs I've had in the past it ranged from $4 - $5500 which is what I based that on. If the pricing has changed then you can plug in any known numbers and get a realistic comparison.

 

[jfiscus]

Maybe it is different in different areas, but our regular dealers here are really pushing the HP latex's, but none of them have even mentioned to us that Mimaki has a Latex out also, and we run Mimaki's here now. I cannot see Mimaki competing with HP's price for purchase of a new machine. I assume HP is pricing them so low to get the major stake in the market hoping for the big bucks from the consumables money. I know Mimaki is a good company, but I don't think they have the capital to throw at the product like HP does. (Notice how Gerber had MAJOR issues after flopping on some of their newer machines)