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Why would 3M 7725 be used for a city spec?

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by gabagoo, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I find it strange that I have a job with this spec. These are numbers that are applied to street lamps in a park. I have no issue with using the material and have it in stock for the real purposes of cutting very small logos and copy for weeding purposes.
    Why would scotchcal 220 or a regular 3M cast vinyl not be used for spec on something like this?
    Does 7725 have some form of outdoor attributes different than conventional cast 3m that I am unaware of?
     
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  2. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    Because a long time ago, when they first had these made, they asked the shop what they used and wrote it into the spec, never to change for all of eternity.
     
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  3. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Other than the liner, they're essentially the same vinyl.
     
  4. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    7125 and 7725 are the same with different liners.
     
  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    No one mentioned 7125. Just 3M 220 to 7725. You need to call Robert and take some 'listening' lessons and sharpen those skills ......

    .
     
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  6. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Ugh Gino the OP did! he just didn't use the product code.

    3M only has 3 Cast cut vinyls: 7125, 7725, and 180mc, there is no 3M 220, only Gerber branded vinyls (made by 3M).

    Furthermore Gerber 220 is 3M 7125 with a different branding on the liner and limited widths.
     
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  7. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Truth be told, I did not know they made a cast 3m with paper backing until I'd been sticking vinyl for 10+ years. I still almost exclusively use 7725.
    Are you installing or just producing. If it's just production, you'd better use the 7725, if you're doing the installs, I'd show them the 3m bulletin on 7125 and 7725, specifically where it says (7725 is the same product as the 7125, carried on a convenient clear liner)
     
  8. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    I spec public projects all the time & can tell you that the 99% of the time, the signage is a tiny portion
    of a much larger project... usually 2-3 million dollar project.
    Most times, the only thing up-dated in division 10 is the restroom fixtures.
    As far as signage, the engineer or architect puts in a bunch of "cover my butt" fluff that was written up years earlier for an entirely
    different type of application.

    Bid it as it is spec'd & if you get the project, tell the contractor that they need to use something else & why... They always have an allowance built in
    to cover changes.
     
  9. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    Same reason I'm quoting a state project site sign on 3/4" MDO (the Canuck had it)
     
  10. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I actually don't know the code for 3M cast outside of 7725 as I only have a Gerber colour chart for 3M...and just a side note that Gerber 220 actually offers more 3M colours than 3M!!! Go figure.
    I had just enough white 7725 to cut the pole numbers. I just found it odd that someone would spec that material.
     
  11. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    specs are usually outdated and no one pays attention, use whatever high performance vinyl you want, no one will ever know. I always do comparable materials
     
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  12. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    I think the 3M 7125 opaque 2mil cast vinyl difference is the clear adhesive so you get the color on both sides when using it on glass.
     
  13. Ian Stewart-Koster

    Ian Stewart-Koster Active Member

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    7725 lasts phenomenally well. I've had signs out in the full weather since the year 2000, in orange and green, and they still look ok.
     
  14. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    220 = 7125 = 7725
    same vinyl

    only difference between 220/7125 & 7725 is a synthetic liner.
     
  15. Steenland

    Steenland Member

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    In my experience with bidding on government projects, the purchaser often has a vendor that they would prefer to work with, but they're legally required to put it out for bids. So they'll ask their preferred vendor for very specific specs to make it harder for another bidder to win the project.
     
  16. eahicks

    eahicks Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks

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    If you only knew how many times X brand was spec'd and I used Y brand. Unless you're sending them RTA decals, they're never gonna know. I like to think "or equivalent" is implied in the specs...LOL. As long it's high performance/cast, I am sure it's fine.
     
  17. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    I've helped write specs for govt RFP's and RFB's a number of times. While it did give me a leg up at times my goal was to assure that ALL bidders are quoting fairly. Yeah every brand makes a cast print vinyl and they all claim to be the best. When your client is a city with a fleet of over 700 police cars and you inform them that 3M IJ680 will remove cleanly even 6 years later that makes a big difference. The less than ethical competitor that puts some other material on that inevitably will leave 95% of the adhesive behind later is begging to get sued. That example is also one where you can physically see the difference too with the distinctive crosshatch pattern that the 680 has. I have personally shown them the differences as well as let them test remove both IJ680 and some other reflective that both had been on for over 4 years. On one bid we did get beat out on they told me that they had a talk with the bidder that was awarded the contract to tell them that they know what to look for and he said that guys face went sort of white and they admitted to him that they were planning on using an "equivalent"..... LOL

    Equivalent is NOT implied in specs unless it is specifically stated. Quoting based on "equivalent" when it is not specifically stated that is allowed is unethical in my opinion when others who play by the rules might be bidding using a $2300 per roll of reflective while the "equivalent" one might be using a $900 roll of reflective. If you are bidding a supposed equivalent then you should specifically point that out in a bid. When i put together proposals/bids I also tend to make sure that the agency is aware that "equivalent" is not always really "equivalent". 3M again as an example, remove a 4 year old wrap that was done on 3M IJ180 and one printed on some other brand. The 3M one is going to remove a LOT easier when the time comes. Sure you saved the client $200 on the front end but the removal later is going to cost them $750 instead of $300. That example in my opinion is doing the client a disservice....
     
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