Window breakage perforated

[SV Signworks]

Good Morning -

Part one: We recently installed perforated and laminated vinyl on a local window. The window was a double pane. The image area was printed in rich black with approx 90% coverage. The balance was white or a light blue. The windows are southern exposure. All factors I've learned since - from this forum - factors that could have lead to uneven thermal expansion and the window to crack. Just that thing happened the day after installation.

Part two: It took a bit of searching here to find out that it can happen - it's a very low percentage and frankly I had no clue that COULD happen.

Part three: I turned it over to the insurance company. They want to contact the mfg - we had it printed at signs 365 because of the size of the window and ink coverage. I suspect that they have never heard of such a thing happening either. So connecting them there solely seems it could be counterproductive. So I guess what I'm asking is can anyone point me towards an article that states this can happen? A google search has yielded little. Or has anyone experienced something similar and how did you manage it?

Thanks.

 

[SV Signworks]

Here's another part of this - They are switching to tempered glass and want to have the same application. I don't find myself in a similar situation. Any info on tempered glass and printed/laminated perf. Oh, and if you wonder why we'd laminate - the customer wants the glossy look and is concerned also about local kids scratching the ink off.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I have heard of solid black vinyl causing windows to crack in extremely hot climates, but it is usually because either a crack or stress already existed in the glass and the heat from the vinyl sped up the issue. I can't see it happening with perf as the window is only 50-70% covered and you are in Idaho, not southern florida.

Is your insurance paying for a new window for your client? Although I doubt you are responsible, It might be best to just let insurance deal with it and move on.

 

[Gino]

I'm only guessing here, but with that much black and having it laminated, I think the wrong approach was used. Knowing that regular annealed glass was in there, should've been your first clue not to put 90% black vinyl on it..... perf or otherwise. When the chips stop falling, you'll most likely be the blame for using the wrong materials and insurance won't pay for it.

Good luck

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I've always been a naysayer about this but suppose there's truth to it. I'd still be leaning to there being an existing stress on the glass like was already said.
Either way, you're the last one to touch it which unfortunately kinda puts it on you. Depending on what it costs to replace it, I'd probably just eat it and leave insurance out of it. Then either have them waive your liability or don't do it again in case it repeats.

 

[Jay Grooms]

I have had 100% Black crack a few windows....(Great Big Ones)
Avery paid for it since they said it was approved for it.

 

[a77]

I have had 100% Black crack a few windows....(Great Big Ones)
Avery paid for it since they said it was approved for it.

Hey Jay - what did Avery pay for? For your material and labour and the window replacement? Or some portion of that?

 

[rjssigns]

IG(insulated glass) panels are the issue. Talk to a professional window tinter.

 

[SV Signworks]

I have heard of solid black vinyl causing windows to crack in extremely hot climates, but it is usually because either a crack or stress already existed in the glass and the heat from the vinyl sped up the issue. I can't see it happening with perf as the window is only 50-70% covered and you are in Idaho, not southern florida.

Is your insurance paying for a new window for your client? Although I doubt you are responsible, It might be best to just let insurance deal with it and move on.

Insurance is (of course) asking for information on the perforated material used. It's true Idaho isn't as hot maybe as say Florida - but the heat is different - more intense maybe. Not sure how to explain it. It's a different heat - than I've experienced in other areas of the country. Thanks Canuck

 

[SV Signworks]

IG(insulated glass) panels are the issue. Talk to a professional window tinter.

They are going to switch to tempered. Which I understand can withstand the vinyl application better. I'm still not sold on adding the laminate though. Still feels risky.

 

[SV Signworks]

I have had 100% Black crack a few windows....(Great Big Ones)
Avery paid for it since they said it was approved for it.

Do you know if any of them were tempered glass?

 

[SV Signworks]

I've always been a naysayer about this but suppose there's truth to it. I'd still be leaning to there being an existing stress on the glass like was already said.
Either way, you're the last one to touch it which unfortunately kinda puts it on you. Depending on what it costs to replace it, I'd probably just eat it and leave insurance out of it. Then either have them waive your liability or don't do it again in case it repeats.

Yeah, I thought the same - we didn't see any sort of stress issue when we installed - except a noted slight bow in the frame at the top. It's also an old window - But yes, the last one to touch it. I'm thinking a liability waiver is a good idea - they are adamant that they want the laminate.

 

[SV Signworks]

I'm only guessing here, but with that much black and having it laminated, I think the wrong approach was used. Knowing that regular annealed glass was in there, should've been your first clue not to put 90% black vinyl on it..... perf or otherwise. When the chips stop falling, you'll most likely be the blame for using the wrong materials and insurance won't pay for it.

Good luck

Thanks, Gino. I agree with you. This was the first time we'd ever had an issue. BUT it's also the first time with the heavy black, laminate, and then annealed glass. It was an unfortunate rookie mistake. I'm just looking to not make it again.

 

[rjssigns]

They are going to switch to tempered. Which I understand can withstand the vinyl application better. I'm still not sold on adding the laminate though. Still feels risky.

Again, talk to a window tint professional. A friend of mine did it for a living until he became a YouTuber. I learned a lot about the do's and dont's and why the pro's use specific formulas to mitigate risk.
Way back when he bid a job for a high school library. Huge walls made up of glass. Instead of going with my friend the professional they went low bidder. They also got to replace every window. He still laughs about that one to this day.

 

[SV Signworks]

Thanks RJS

 

[Gino]

Unfortunately, you're the professional and are supposed to know better, regardless of what warranties will tell you or guarantee. If your insurance pays for it, I'd be thinking what will happen to my premiums from this one incident..... or just save it for a really big problem.

Anyway, be careful as whether it's 3M, Avery or any of the others, it most likely will come back as user error. You are responsible for what you're doing and will need one heck of a paper trail that you did your homework on this one.

 

[SV Signworks]

Thank you, Gino. We have a little over 10 years in this field - still babies by comparison to some sign shops. You are right - we are the professionals. Even though I do my best to research any new project we take on that we have limited familiarity with, this one got missed. I failed to think differently about it because we had just installed unlaminated black on a window next to it and we've installed other solid color/laminated on other windows in the area without incident. It's an unfortunate "live and learn" scenario I think. Hopefully one of the few that costs us. I appreciate your insight.

 

[Jay Grooms]

Do you know if any of them were tempered glass?

Nope, All normal glass...

 

[Jay Grooms]

Hey Jay - what did Avery pay for? For your material and labour and the window replacement? Or some portion of that?

Material and windows

 

[gnubler]

Learn something new on every thread I read here.