Need Help Window perf

[d fleming]

Although I might consider wet application on a hot window in the sun, I have never found a need for installing perf vinyl wet.

Our heat index today calls for 109 degrees

 

[MHester]

I've been spraying mine with NAPA 8887 Cut-In Clear. Works well.

Havent' heard of that stuff, I'll look into it, thanks!

 

[ikarasu]

We overlam all ours. Whether it's solvent or latex or uv...the ink type doesn't matter, most places tend to use industrial cleaners to clean their windows.... Last thing you want is a big smear because someone's using a strong chemical that'll erase graphics.

If this is your first time doing window perf it might seem scary.... But it's easier than vinyl. The hardest part about any install is alignment... And if you can install and align SAV then you can do it with window perf.

If you laminate... Use an optically clear overlam as was already mentioned. Overlam helps it not rip.... But it's still easier than vinyl, so if you reposition and have to lift the vinyl up... be careful.

If you don't.... If you have to lift the vinyl due to a wrinkle or to reposition it.... Be very careful, window perf rips easy.


Which window perf are you using? A lot of perf stays up for a few months only so many brands release crappy perf that's rated for 6 months. It's cheap and we use it a lot for temp graphics.. But if it's longterm make sure to get a decent brand that's rated for longer. 3M is rated for 4-5 years I believe... It's like triple the price of the cheap stuff, but worth it for longevity. I'm sure Avery has a long term option as well.

 

[MHester]

We overlam all ours. Whether it's solvent or latex or uv...the ink type doesn't matter, most places tend to use industrial cleaners to clean their windows.... Last thing you want is a big smear because someone's using a strong chemical that'll erase graphics.

If this is your first time doing window perf it might seem scary.... But it's easier than vinyl. The hardest part about any install is alignment... And if you can install and align SAV then you can do it with window perf.

If you laminate... Use an optically clear overlam as was already mentioned. Overlam helps it not rip.... But it's still easier than vinyl, so if you reposition and have to lift the vinyl up... be careful.

If you don't.... If you have to lift the vinyl due to a wrinkle or to reposition it.... Be very careful, window perf rips easy.


Which window perf are you using? A lot of perf stays up for a few months only so many brands release crappy perf that's rated for 6 months. It's cheap and we use it a lot for temp graphics.. But if it's longterm make sure to get a decent brand that's rated for longer. 3M is rated for 4-5 years I believe... It's like triple the price of the cheap stuff, but worth it for longevity. I'm sure Avery has a long term option as well.

Lots of great info here, thank you. The window perf will probably be changed out after 1 year, the customer likes to change specials and prices on his marketing, so I don't expect it to stay up any longer than 1 year. I went with Kapko/Star brand 60/4, and am using it on my HP latex printer. The Kapko is the house brand for my distributor. My customer mainly wants the window perf for shade on the interior because it's a new construction site and there aren't any shade trees close enough. I probably won't overlam it since they'll probably change it out after 1 year. Also, with this graphic, there will be no overlay/seams needed for alignment, I can print each window in one section with my 54" printer. However, I hear different suggestions whether or not to add bleed and trim afterwards, or short cut the vinyl about 1/4" from the window frame...what are your thoughts? As long as I make sure the measurements of the window are exact, and the install is perfectly straight, do I need bleed? Common sense tells me that installing on a window with a frame makes it harder, since there's no good placement to put the tape to hold everything in place, especially if a frame is in the way. Thoughts?

I'll be very careful and slow when installing, since it's my first time using this stuff, and fear of the vinyl ripping. But most everyone here says it's cake to install if you have experience with vinyl and squeegees. I wet mount, dry mount, 2nd surface mount stuff all the time on aluminum, ACM, coroplast, plexiglass, and styrene for the past 3 years, so hopefully I've got enough experience to handle the job. It's my dumb-no-common-sense-lets-hurry-up-my-arms-are-tired assistant that worries me. I'd be better off if I grab my husband and kids (who follow direction) help me out with the install. They helped me install a 12' tall X 30' wide wall graphic last year and did great. lol.

Thanks again for al the tips.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

What works for me when doing window perf...

I use the "Bill Collector" squeegee from Fellers.

Start by cutting the backing paper off 12" from the top of the roll. Visually line up the panel with the top of the window and use the squeegee to apply from where you cut the baking paper, and work to the top. Go down and make sure the panel will track correctly. Then roll it up and pull the backing off and apply like normal. Usually I do left to right motions using VERY LIGHT PRESSURE for the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the panel. The reason I use light pressure is because that stuff can stretch easily in the summer and create wrinkles. I usually get about half way down the panel before I feel the need to squeegee down instead of side to side to prevent wrinkles... still using light pressure in the summer time. Then go back and use firm pressure when everything is mounted.

 

[MHester]

What works for me when doing window perf...

I use the "Bill Collector" squeegee from Fellers.

Start by cutting the backing paper off 12" from the top of the roll. Visually line up the panel with the top of the window and use the squeegee to apply from where you cut the baking paper, and work to the top. Go down and make sure the panel will track correctly. Then roll it up and pull the backing off and apply like normal. Usually I do left to right motions using VERY LIGHT PRESSURE for the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the panel. The reason I use light pressure is because that stuff can stretch easily in the summer and create wrinkles. I usually get about half way down the panel before I feel the need to squeegee down instead of side to side to prevent wrinkles... still using light pressure in the summer time. Then go back and use firm pressure when everything is mounted.

Thanks for the tip That's exactly how I was planning on doing the install...except for the fellers bill collector squeegee....haven't seen that one, I'll have to investigate. Thanks.

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

1. The flag perf graphic video..... perf fails within a year. Wrong install technique - no edge seal

2. NEVER EVER EVER apply perf wet

3. Lam for vehicles!! Safety

4. Lam for stuff like store fronts? We do. Protects the graphic and more importantly your client with not be cursing you when they go to remove the perf and it comes of in little bits! You can go without though

5. Learn how to install properly! Perf installs are a bit different than regular vinyl or wraps. Installing on vehicles in particular.

 

[De.signs Nanaimo]

To install laminated perf I just get up on the ladder no need to measure, peel the backing about a foot to 18 inches down and fold to a loose crease, then I line up the top of the square graphic to the top of the glass and tack each side, and tack up the middle in case of sag. The backing paper keeps the graphic away from the window and rigid at the same time, I keep tension on the graphic with one hand and lay it down with the other. Then I just peel and work all the way down. Keep an eye on your left to right wander, then I trim and tape the edges.

 

[unclebun]

It's way easier to install on a window if it's cut to size before approaching the window. Make it so that it will get to within 1/8"-1/4" of the edge, being careful of the rubber gasket material.

As far as edge seal, we have never needed it. My personal vehicle has had a perf wrap on the back window for over 2 years that looks perfect and has no edge lifting. Only blemish is where we hit it with a piece of MaxMetal when loading a 4x8 into the bed.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It's way easier to install on a window if it's cut to size before approaching the window. Make it so that it will get to within 1/8"-1/4" of the edge, being careful of the rubber gasket material.

As far as edge seal, we have never needed it. My personal vehicle has had a perf wrap on the back window for over 2 years that looks perfect and has no edge lifting. Only blemish is where we hit it with a piece of MaxMetal when loading a 4x8 into the bed.

Generally I dont use edge seal unless the glass is really slick and I cant get it rough enough. I try to just remove the stripping and tuck the perf inside of it and put the strip back on...most of the time the lifting happens in the corners.

 

[ikarasu]

Lots of great info here, thank you. The window perf will probably be changed out after 1 year, the customer likes to change specials and prices on his marketing, so I don't expect it to stay up any longer than 1 year. I went with Kapko/Star brand 60/4, and am using it on my HP latex printer. The Kapko is the house brand for my distributor. My customer mainly wants the window perf for shade on the interior because it's a new construction site and there aren't any shade trees close enough. I probably won't overlam it since they'll probably change it out after 1 year. Also, with this graphic, there will be no overlay/seams needed for alignment, I can print each window in one section with my 54" printer. However, I hear different suggestions whether or not to add bleed and trim afterwards, or short cut the vinyl about 1/4" from the window frame...what are your thoughts? As long as I make sure the measurements of the window are exact, and the install is perfectly straight, do I need bleed? Common sense tells me that installing on a window with a frame makes it harder, since there's no good placement to put the tape to hold everything in place, especially if a frame is in the way. Thoughts?

I'll be very careful and slow when installing, since it's my first time using this stuff, and fear of the vinyl ripping. But most everyone here says it's cake to install if you have experience with vinyl and squeegees. I wet mount, dry mount, 2nd surface mount stuff all the time on aluminum, ACM, coroplast, plexiglass, and styrene for the past 3 years, so hopefully I've got enough experience to handle the job. It's my dumb-no-common-sense-lets-hurry-up-my-arms-are-tired assistant that worries me. I'd be better off if I grab my husband and kids (who follow direction) help me out with the install. They helped me install a 12' tall X 30' wide wall graphic last year and did great. lol.

Thanks again for al the tips.

The ol cut before or after debate.

A window may be square, but 9 put of 10 times its seal is not. Our customers like us going right to the seal so there's no edges at all... We cut at an angle between the seal and the window for one client. It's risky because you can, and probably will knick the seal.. The client we do it for knows this and is OK with it. He hates having a 1/8 (recommended 1/8 border not perfed all around for best adhesion). For him we add bleed and cut on site. We generally add bleed and cut on site for everyone... It's a bit more work but even when doing a 1/8" around cut it tends to look the best in our opinion. Our installers been doing it for 30 years and he can eyeball and cut with a straight hand... Me on the other hand I use a Yello tools device.

www.yellotools.us/Cutting/Knives-Cutters-Scissors/YelloGuide-Flexi.html something like this that guides it and keeps it a perfect square cut. We usually.uae this because we don't always measure ourselves... If we did we may precut it.

As for how to hold.it up to the window since it's mulions ontop.... Double sided tape!

Put some.double sided tape about a ft from the top. Align the image and press it down on the tape.... Make sure the image is flat and perfect. Grab the top 12 inches and bend it back... Peel the liner off and use scissors (scissors, not a knife.. A knife will leave dust shards behind) and cut the backing paper off. Squeegee the 12" up.... Remove the double sided tape and continue.

We've been meaning to try the Yello tools magnet solution. It's a magnet that has a suction cup... You put it on the inside and then you can use magnets on he outside of the window. It's genius and seems like it'd be a time saver... Sadly we don't do many windows anymore so I keep forgetting to buy it.

http://www.yellotools.us/New-Products/GeckoPatch.html

Simplest way is double sided tape though.. Works great even on walls or vehicles. We generally don't tape anything up with normal tape anymore.

 

[ikarasu]

P.s - there's a ton of tools that may make your job easier. Yello tools is filled with hundreds of awesome ideas. We've bought a dozen... A few we use a lot a few we don't. I know I just suggested a few.... But take it with a grain of salt otherwise you'll be like us with a 30lb tool box with stuff that's great in certain situations.... Carrying a roll of tape, squeegee and a tape measure by hand to every job and leaving everything else behind.