Wrap Industry… Your Thoughts?

[Joe Diaz]

I hardly consider wraps are in its infancy. We have been doing them for 14 years now.

If anything it a over saturated industry with every shop that has a capable printer calling themselves experts.

It also by no means is a niche market but a robust profitable industry that accounts for more than half of our production.

It is also a very competitive market even for the one off wraps. So the margin will keep going down for the service provider both printers and eventually the installers.

We do not do any design so it is hard for me to comment on the integrity of a good design and its advertising effect for the end user.

14 years, is still pretty young. And you may have been doing it for quite a while, But for the rest of use, not until recently have distributors been cramming wrap products, services, and the overall idea that every sign shop should be doing wraps down our throats. And, since only a small hand full of the sign industry really knows what they are doing when it comes to wraps, and there is a lot that our own shop still doesn’t know about wraps, I would say that yes the wrap industry is still in its infancy. Compared to other industries, really there isn’t as much information available, especially on the design end. Like I said very little government restrictions, if any at all are put in place for this industry. Yet another sign the wrap industry is still in its infancy.

And it’s debatable if it is a niche market or not. There are plenty of businesses that can operate solely off of what I consider a niche market, which really isn’t a bad thing. I also assume that these types of companies that can do so are in more developed urban markets. Niche market only means that it’s a service that isn’t being supplied by the mainstream industry. And the findings of this pole so far only further backs up my assumption that the wrap industry is a niche market. Not a lot of sign shops seem to be providing wrap related services as their sole source of income.

 

[Chiproller]

Ok, here goes...

I am one of the so-called "new guys" that people on this forum seem to stereotype and dismiss as providing wraps that are horrible in design and installation. While I am sure they are out there, I know that I personally am committed to providing a quality design and install for all of my future customers. I will not be doing it on the cheap and my goal is to provide a high level of thought and customer service for each and every design we create. So DO NOT underestimate or dismiss the guys like me out there who are just getting started, or do so at your own peril.

Anyone who thinks that vehicle wraps are a fad is CRAZY. As long as there are no restrictions to vehicle advertising, businesses will always look for ways to promote their services and differentiate their company. In my opinion, if you just have vinyl lettering on your truck, you might as well save your money because you are NOT being noticed by your customer. It does nothing for your image and is as memorable as an insurance seminar.

Ask yourself this, how many cars did you pass on the way into work today that had lettering on them to identify their company on them? Can you even remember one of them? Vinyl lettering is pointless and has ZERO impact on the customer. Now, I am only referring to lettering as opposed to a colorful logo made with vinyl including lettering that is unique, colorful and memorable. That adds SOME value maybe...

Now compare that to a well designed vehicle wrap that you may have been behind in traffic on your way to work. Can you recall the company? Did it at least give you something to do during the mindless commute to work today? My bet is it did, and the second time you notice it the brand will stick.

Chip

 

[doublesky]

I used to work at a shop that was 100% focused on wraps. The industry became so saturated in our area, that it was basically an insult when we were presented w/ quotes from other shops to match. People are seriously low-balling wraps now, killing the industry for the "little guy"... IMO

 

[Joe Diaz]

Chiproller, This post wasn’t really intended to pick on the new guys. At least that was not my goal. I simply wanted to gain a better understanding from new and seasoned sign makers alike, and their thoughts about the wrap industry. How can we make it better? Why do they not sell well in some areas? Why does it seem that they are so popular in this industry, yet the good majority of us sign shops out there do less then one a month? It really has little to do with whether you are new or not… unless you factor in the large group of new sign makers that haven’t been in business long enough to know that you can’t give this type of work a way just to make a sale. But really, I don’t want to turn this into another newbie vs veteran post. There is already a bunch of those on here.

Now as far as wraps vs. other large format vehicle graphics: The impact they make has little to do with whether or not you can get the material to comply around a mirror and a windshield wiper. Sure those are cool effects and can add to an overall eye catching product, But all of that means zilch if message isn’t getting across. There are a lot of super graphics and other non-wrap large format vehicle graphics that sell a brand name much better then wraps. But it all boils down to the design that was used. The point I’m trying to make is where do people go to learn that knowledge? Where do they go to learn that it isn’t about how many filters and effects you use, it’s about creating a clear, legible, and memorable impression. Is there any place at all? Are you just born with it? I mean you see wrap seminars and DVDs and all sorts of stuff that teaches you how to install a wrap, but not too much on proper design practices. So when suppliers sell you on this idea of a wonderful wrap market that is available to every one, They aren’t supplying you with every thing you need to make it happen, and they have no control over your market, in fact, they probably no less about your market then you do. I just think people should be aware of jumping into the wrap industry blindfolded with out first having an understanding of what is involved and more importantly how to properly help your clients by creating a good image.

 

[The Sign Dude]

I talk with Steve from luma media this morning and he said instead of having retailers they were going to set up locations in different areas and have certified installers that could sell and install but all the graphics would be generated through their facility and shipped out to you. He said the vehicle on their site (Focus?) would be about 6k to do.

 

[onesmf]

It is only a fad if you jump on the band wagon and start doing wraps because it is the latest craze. It stops being a fad when you produce top quality, a-one advertising for a customer. That is ultimately what delineates a sustainable business from "flash-in-the-pan", follow the craze operations. I helped my father fabricate signs when I was old enough to hold a paint brush. The technology has changed since then, but the basic ability to "design" and "create" has not. Every, all, each business needs a sign. Some have a larger budget than others. This ultimately separates the successfull, dedicated business person from all of the rest. Recognizing what suits a customer and creating an advertising medium which produces results gets the paycheck. Identifying a market, staying up on the latest trends and keeping pace with the "lowballers" is a tiny fraction of operating a successfull business. First and foremost, you must be good at what you do and stop worrying about what the corner cutters are doing. If you have done a wrap, you understand the time, effort and design process involved. Rest assured, Joe Blow undercutting all the other experts will eventually burn out because all of his hard work has been taken advantage of and he was never paid accordingly. Think business sense and talent before everything else. Those attributes are what will make you a success.

 

[Chiproller]

Chiproller, This post wasn’t really intended to pick on the new guys. At least that was not my goal. I simply wanted to gain a better understanding from new and seasoned sign makers alike, and their thoughts about the wrap industry. How can we make it better? Why do they not sell well in some areas? Why does it seem that they are so popular in this industry, yet the good majority of us sign shops out there do less then one a month? It really has little to do with whether you are new or not… unless you factor in the large group of new sign makers that haven’t been in business long enough to know that you can’t give this type of work a way just to make a sale. But really, I don’t want to turn this into another newbie vs veteran post. There is already a bunch of those on here.

Now as far as wraps vs. other large format vehicle graphics: The impact they make has little to do with whether or not you can get the material to comply around a mirror and a windshield wiper. Sure those are cool effects and can add to an overall eye catching product, But all of that means zilch if message isn’t getting across. There are a lot of super graphics and other non-wrap large format vehicle graphics that sell a brand name much better then wraps. But it all boils down to the design that was used. The point I’m trying to make is where do people go to learn that knowledge? Where do they go to learn that it isn’t about how many filters and effects you use, it’s about creating a clear, legible, and memorable impression. Is there any place at all? Are you just born with it? I mean you see wrap seminars and DVDs and all sorts of stuff that teaches you how to install a wrap, but not too much on proper design practices. So when suppliers sell you on this idea of a wonderful wrap market that is available to every one, They aren’t supplying you with every thing you need to make it happen, and they have no control over your market, in fact, they probably no less about your market then you do. I just think people should be aware of jumping into the wrap industry blindfolded with out first having an understanding of what is involved and more importantly how to properly help your clients by creating a good image.

Joe,

I was certainly not insulted by any remarks in your post as a newb or by any replies as well. As a contributing member to the forum, I thought that a post from the perspective of someone brand spanking new to vehicle wraps may be helpful.

Coming from 15 years of sales experience at a number of different companies selling services as diverse as Financial Advice to College Textbooks, everyone complains about price. It's no different in any industry! My 2 cents is to not fall into the trap of believing that there is no money to be made in wraps because "everybody is doing it now". That's ridiculous.

While there may be more competition out there, you have to set yourself apart. You must have some sort of unique selling proposition that sets you apart from the competition. In my case, I hope that our focus on Creative Visual Solutions will convince our customers that we can solve their problem.

Chip

 

[3dsignco]

I think it is more of FAD to sign companies then to the market. Everyone is thinking.. Wow no substrate so I can make more since I don't have to buy any dibond or MDO
The hacks will go away and another will fill their shoes.. I will always stick to my philosophy of Design, Design, Design, It will always win out over price. (Its work so far)
I do loose work to lower priced competitors but I keep the quality customers who want quality. (Don't get me wrong I have had my fair share of WHAT WAS I THINKING designs)

It will all balance out in the end.

I did my first wrap. (If thats what you want to call it) 13 years ago with a Gerber Edge.. Did it once never again. We market the wraps and in my area 90% of all our vehicles are a partial wrap. Usually Trailers, Box Trucks and Vans. I haven't done a car yet so I can speak to that.
We just keep our shop well diversified due to being in a small area. Right now we are slammed with more refresh work then new businesses and of course the real estate.

 

[OldPaint]

Ask yourself this, how many cars did you pass on the way into work today that had lettering on them to identify their company on them? Can you even remember one of them? Vinyl lettering is pointless and has ZERO impact on the customer. Now, I am only referring to lettering as opposed to a colorful logo made with vinyl including lettering that is unique, colorful and memorable. That adds SOME value maybe...

Now compare that to a well designed vehicle wrap that you may have been behind in traffic on your way to work. Can you recall the company? Did it at least give you something to do during the mindless commute to work today? My bet is it did, and the second time you notice it the brand will stick.
VINYL HAS NO IMPACT??? take that a step future and youre saying that HAND PAINTED SIGNS had no IMPACT?
now see how silly youre statement sounds?
the differance between a WELL DESIGNED sign with TEXT, doing all the work, HAS BEEN THE MAINSTAY OF THE REAL SIGN PAINTERS/MAKERS.
knowing how to be IMPACTFULL with text is where the TALENT and EXPERIANCE come to full usage.
MIKE STEVENS didnt do many signs with all the fluff.
DAN ANTONALLI, RICK SACHS, most all who ever swung a brush.....will tell you the same thing.
most products OF REGOGNITION.... have 1 or 2 WORDS
that set them apart.
NIKI, COKE, PEPSI,BUDWIESER, MILLER, SUNOCO, BP, AMACO, CITGO,WHEATIES, CHEETOS, DORITOS go to cars, mostly was a FONT that described the BRAND.
FORD, CHEVROLET, DODGE, how many tailgates have o seen these FONT/TEXT on?
and you remember them.
as for this wrap crap, and most of it is IF NOT PROPERLY EXCUCUTED... IS NON-READABLE WHEN IT IS MOVING...
just look at some of the NASCAR cars....READABLE AT 180 MPH. these are good, ive seen wraps, some sittin ...I STILL DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE!!!!!
the new people doin WRAPS, with no signage background, are the one who need to learn....not everybody is gona buy their over done stuff.
like i said before most wrapers should have this sign above their door...
IF I CANT DAZZLE YOU WITH MY BRILIANCE, THEN ILL BAFFLE YOU with added FLUFF!!!
the old saying..LESS IS MORE...does not apply here))))))))

 

[Checkers]

Hey Chip,
If you want to survive in this business, you're gonna have to grow thicker skin. You seem to be defending the newbie stereotype - even if it is there for a reason
For the record, there always were and always will be hacks in this industry. However, since the equipment and software that "does all the work" is more affordable than ever, the people that see and can do a very small part the business are getting into the business and calling themselves designers and sign makers.
Just because someone bought a cheap plotter on ebay, hacked some design software from RapidShare and can cut some stickers, it doesn't give them the right to call themselves professionals. Most have no knowledge on what to charge, how to run a business, or even know the difference between bad and good design.
Yes, there are exceptions to this stereotype, but they are few and far between. None-the-less, most of us who participate here are here to help those who are committed to learning.
I think the industry is too stubborn or independent to really improve itself. Once again stereotyping, the old-timers don't want to be bothered with the newbies, mainly because of my comments above. And the newbies don't want to take the time to properly learn the industry because it takes time and they are part of this instant, "I want it all, now" society.
As I said in my previous post, the sign industry in general is moving at such a rapid pace that it would be nearly impossible to develop and implement a good apprenticeship or training program that can keep pace with the industry changes. Learning the basics of good design can be developed in due time, but the art of implementing good design using modern technologies is nearly impossible. By time you’ve mastered the current technology, it’s already out of date. And yes, we are to blame for this. In our consumerism society, we feel we must have the latest and greatest just to survive. Look where this attitude and the SUV got us.


Sorry for hijacking your thread Joe.
To get back on track, here's one last thought/comment...

I feel that some companies do better than others because of the amount of time, knowledge and effort they put into what they're promoting. As I said in the past, what you are selling makes a world of difference. Are you selling graphics on your vehicle or vehicle advertising? If the company you're trying to sell already does any other type of advertising, they can be persuaded to purchase vehicle advertising. Remember, full page newspaper ads can cost thousands of dollars per day; billboards can cost thousands of dollars per month and phonebooks can cost thousands of dollars per year. However, at a the same or lower cost, none of them are as effective as a well executed marketing plan using vehicle wraps.


Checkers

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

14 years, is still pretty young. And you may have been doing it for quite a while, But for the rest of use, not until recently have distributors been cramming wrap products, services, and the overall idea that every sign shop should be doing wraps down our throats. And, since only a small hand full of the sign industry really knows what they are doing when it comes to wraps, and there is a lot that our own shop still doesn’t know about wraps, I would say that yes the wrap industry is still in its infancy. Compared to other industries, really there isn’t as much information available, especially on the design end. Like I said very little government restrictions, if any at all are put in place for this industry. Yet another sign the wrap industry is still in its infancy.

And it’s debatable if it is a niche market or not. There are plenty of businesses that can operate solely off of what I consider a niche market, which really isn’t a bad thing. I also assume that these types of companies that can do so are in more developed urban markets. Niche market only means that it’s aservice that isn’t being supplied by the mainstream industry. And the findings of this pole so far only further backs up my assumption that the wrap industry is a niche market. Not a lot of sign shops seem to be providing wrap related services as their sole source of income.

I actually think that the wrap market has already peaked and like any other product it will be consolidated to the strongest players..

Plenty of the pie out there but not for everyone. Especially this late in the game (or infancy as you refer).

Again this is an opinion from a print provider and install firm that has no value added in design.

I am certain design services or a 1 stop shop is very valuable to a one off as value added and can fuel the fire. That is not fair for me to give an opinion.

I am just looking out our window.....

 

[coyote]

We don't do wraps, but speaking as a consumer-there's a lot of really bad design out there and the advertising message gets lost in the clutter. If I can't instantly get the message at 60mph-or even at 25 as I drive past a worksite or intersection, then what is the added value?

I suppose I'm old school, but a clean and graphic representation will get my attention and be memorable-with the full wraps that have TMI (too many images), all I see is the totality-I see it maybe as "art" but not as a message. Phone number? Location? Product?

I think the market will drive the industry, as it does everything else. An unsuccessful image will get replaced, and a poor designer will also.
Carol

 

[Richard Flint]

We don't do wraps, but speaking as a consumer-there's a lot of really bad design out there and the advertising message gets lost in the clutter. If I can't instantly get the message at 60mph-or even at 25 as I drive past a worksite or intersection, then what is the added value?

I suppose I'm old school, but a clean and graphic representation will get my attention and be memorable-with the full wraps that have TMI (too many images), all I see is the totality-I see it maybe as "art" but not as a message. Phone number? Location? Product?

I think the market will drive the industry, as it does everything else. An unsuccessful image will get replaced, and a poor designer will also.
Carol

I guess I'm old school too, because I feel the same way you do!

 

[signmeup]

I'm old enough to remember the cargo van murals in the 70's. Wraps are pretty much the same to me....fad.

 

[Chiproller]

Wraps are only as much of a fad as vehicle graphics are. I don't see anyone deciding to stop advertising their company on their vehicles...ever. Some will have the budget for a full impact message about their company, some will not. Those that do will get a wrap! It's that simple. People are not going to stop getting wraps all of a sudden in 5 years. IMO wraps will still be on the road until some other technology takes it's place in the future.

Chip

 

[OldPaint]

Some will have the budget for a full impact message about their company, some will not. Those that do will get a wrap! It's that simple. People are not going to stop getting wraps all of a sudden in 5 years. IMO wraps will still be on the road until some other technology takes it's place in the future.

FULL IMPACT? you need to define that. i think youre saying that WITH WRAPS ITS FULL IMPACT?
then again you are WRONG!
the basic reason for SIGNAGE IS TO CONVEY YOURE MESSAGE TO THE MASSES.
NOW... as an old stock car painter.....truck painter, wall painter, i think we DID THAT WELL.
if youre saying its not a FULL IMPACT sign, UNLESS ITS GOT TONS OF COLORS,BACKGROUND IMAGES you need to rethink what youre doing.
ive lettered many VEHICLES that have FULL IMPACT...and got paid well it.
as for what wrpas will be 5 yrs from now, you might be wrong. also with the increased number of people tryin for the money they make by given it away cheaper...WILL INCREASE.
like i said before about $500-700 wraps on stock cars....after you take materials, time, and expense of machine......youre lookin at less profit then when i painted them for $200-400...AND THAT WAS ALL IN MY POCKET MONEY!!!!
this is an example of brush work for full impact.
you may not like it but the owner did and i got $1400 for it. cost of materials, was maybe $20!!!!

 

[Pat Whatley]

Ask yourself this, how many cars did you pass on the way into work today that had lettering on them to identify their company on them? Can you even remember one of them?
Chip

Yep, W & W Contractors...because somebody put "Contractors" on about 2" off center and crooked.

Now compare that to a well designed vehicle wrap that you may have been behind in traffic on your way to work. Can you recall the company?
Chip

Irrevelant to my area...there are NO well designed vehicle wraps. Just piles of crap stuck on vans for as low as $2000. There have actually been times I've stood in a parking lot staring at a van trying to figure out what in the hell they were selling...like the wheelchair company with cacti all over their van...or the carpet cleaning company wrap that they left the phone number off of and the guy wrote in on with a magic marker.

 

[Chiproller]

Some will have the budget for a full impact message about their company, some will not. Those that do will get a wrap! It's that simple. People are not going to stop getting wraps all of a sudden in 5 years. IMO wraps will still be on the road until some other technology takes it's place in the future.

FULL IMPACT? you need to define that. i think youre saying that WITH WRAPS ITS FULL IMPACT?
then again you are WRONG!
the basic reason for SIGNAGE IS TO CONVEY YOURE MESSAGE TO THE MASSES.
NOW... as an old stock car painter.....truck painter, wall painter, i think we DID THAT WELL.
if youre saying its not a FULL IMPACT sign, UNLESS ITS GOT TONS OF COLORS,BACKGROUND IMAGES you need to rethink what youre doing.
ive lettered many VEHICLES that have FULL IMPACT...and got paid well it.
as for what wrpas will be 5 yrs from now, you might be wrong. also with the increased number of people tryin for the money they make by given it away cheaper...WILL INCREASE.
like i said before about $500-700 wraps on stock cars....after you take materials, time, and expense of machine......youre lookin at less profit then when i painted them for $200-400...AND THAT WAS ALL IN MY POCKET MONEY!!!!
this is an example of brush work for full impact.
you may not like it but the owner did and i got $1400 for it. cost of materials, was maybe $20!!!!

Whatever floats your boat brother. But the point of this thread was do you think wraps are a fad? I do not. Clearly you took my statement about vinyl lettering on trucks being less impactful than a vehicle wrap and took it as an insult to your skills as a painter and what painting can accomplish? Geez....that's a bit of a stretch don't ya think? Chill out Oldpaint, and rant about the glory days in the Painters forum.

Your paint job, looks good and I think it accomplishes everything that an impactful message should. But the EXACT same thing can be accomplished now with a computer, Illustrator, and an inkjet printer in a partial or full wrap.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Whatever floats your boat brother. But the point of this thread was do you think wraps are a fad? I do not. Clearly you took my statement about vinyl lettering on trucks being less impactful than a vehicle wrap and took it as an insult to your skills as a painter and what painting can accomplish? Geez....that's a bit of a stretch don't ya think? Chill out Oldpaint, and rant about the glory days in the Painters forum.

Actually, The point of the thread was not whether or not you think it’s a fad, Several people including yourself chose to take the post in that direction. And really there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe we should have a discussion about that. But OP’s agenda to turn it into a paint vs print debate (which no offence OP, you do all the time.) is really not that different.

No, the point of the thread was to see how many people are actually doing wraps and to what extent. I kind of predicted we would see similar results, but this is only one forum, so it’s hard to say. To me, I see magazine articles, full magazines, and sign suppliers gearing up and focusing a lot on wraps, maybe too much so. Yet I also see, and the results of this poll also indicate that most sign shops aren’t doing a whole lot of wraps. It’s debatable but to me it kind of seems like the suppliers are trying to control the direction this industry goes. Possibly to sell certain products… I don’t know. I don’t think that should be the case I think the market demand for a product or service should control the direction of this industry. Now I could be wrong on all of this. And that is the point of this thread: To see where every one stands.

Do I personally think Wraps are a fad? Not really. They aren’t very popular in our area though. But, I still think they will be around for a while. One thing that concerns me though: is that most of them aren’t being executed properly and aren’t being sold at a high enough price, which makes it an undesirable niche to be involved with or to compete in. And I believe that for new sign makers or existing ones that don’t know much about this service, a post like this could be very helpful. They should know what to expect from peers in the industry rather then take the suppliers word for it.

 

[Checkers]

Hey Joe,
Suppliers are just that, they're trying to sell product. For the most part, they probably don't care what it is as long as they can make their profit on it.
On the other hand, I think the one part of our industry where the suppliers and manufacturers (mainly manufacturers) are attempting to manipulate us is with LED signs and lighting.
While LEDs may or can save some money, I don't they're as "good" and "plug and play" as were lead to believe. Also, from my limited experience with the consumer level LED's, I know they're not as reliable or as long-lasting the manufacturers claim.
A while back, I sent in some LED lighting for repairs and/or replacement only to have the manufacturer issue me a refund. So, even they're not willing to support the products they make. If this was a client's project, I would have flipped!

Checkers