Wrap installers - what ink do you prefer?

[Quark]

Wrap installers - if you’re completely removed from the print process and do the installs only, what ink type do you prefer to install? Eco-solvent, latex or uv?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I am a wrap installer (not a printer) and I prefer Latex.

Dark colors on EcoSol where there is a lot of saturation makes the vinyl tear easier, "stringy" or aggressive or...I don't know how to describe it... It's like ecosol "eats" away at the vinyl and the darker colors apply differently (harder) then the lighter colors. There are already too many factors that effect how the vinyl behaves that specific day and adding in the variation of the effect of ecosol on the vinyl in dark colors compounds those problems. been years since I've installed with EcoSol inks though so I'm going on memory.

Most of the wraps I do are on location and outside...so my issues with how vinyl behaves may be more vastly magnified then someone that does them inside under the same conditions day in and day out.

I don't think I've used UV on a vehicle.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

I have a good perception of all this. I started on Roland eco sol’s, then purchased a latex 570, and am taking delivery today of an OKI. So I am a printer, but also an installer. I have extensive installation experience, and am 3m preferred, Avery cwi certified, oracal certified, Lowen certified, and wrapify certified. So I install a vast number of different brand materials on different substrates all the time. We do many contract installs. And I know this might not be the answer you’re looking for, but they really do both have their advantages. The instant dry of the latex is great, and by far it’s best feature. But with that type of ink comes some other issues. Particularly with the newer latex ink set using Avery 1360 overlaminate if that is something you use. The laminate has adhesion issues on their vinyl, and just an overlap of vinyl can pull off the laminate. I have seen this with 3m’s but nothing close to as bad. I’ve never seen this with Oracal. Again, this is just with the 831 ink set. So from an installer point of view, that can be a real pain and can cost a lot of money on redo’s if you’re not careful. The other issue with latex and installation if you simply cannot stretch the material as much without discoloration. And with all these new non-pvc films coming out with more conform ability that is a issue. 3m’s 480 can be stretched 150% and while the vinyl can hold up to that, latex ink won’t if it has heavy ink saturation. But again, that instant dry feature is very nice, and was the selling point on why I bought ours. Now the other side with solvents. You have more stretchability when needed. But if you try to install to quickly after printing the adhesive can get very sticky. I’m not comparing outgassing as far as longevity is concerned but strictly with install because that is what you asked. So if all is equal. Prints outgassed before installing, I would rather install solvent. Strictly from an install perspective, and everything done correctly and dried. Thanks my take on it

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I am a wrap installer (not a printer) and I prefer Latex.

Dark colors on EcoSol where there is a lot of saturation makes the vinyl tear easier, "stringy" or aggressive or...I don't know how to describe it... It's like ecosol "eats" away at the vinyl and the darker colors apply differently (harder) then the lighter colors. There are already too many factors that effect how the vinyl behaves that specific day and adding in the variation of the effect of ecosol on the vinyl in dark colors compounds those problems. been years since I've installed with EcoSol inks though so I'm going on memory.

Most of the wraps I do are on location and outside...so my issues with how vinyl behaves may be more vastly magnified then someone that does them inside under the same conditions day in and day out.

I don't think I've used UV on a vehicle.

FYI, the reason the solvent inks feel like they're "eating" the vinyl is because that's what they're actually doing! The solvent ink etches the vinyl and leaves behind the pigment when the solvent evaporates. It shouldn't be too noticeable for the most part and if you're getting areas of the vinyl that are more or less aggressive or the vinyl feels flimsy it's probably because the heat settings were off when the graphics were printed. If the solvent evaporates too quickly or not quickly enough you get a variety of issues.

 

[ikarasu]

We do latex and ecosolvent. We have UV... But I can't imagine doing a wrap in UV. Maybe the roll to roll uvs are different, but oir UV ink isn't stretchable at all, and it's thick.. you can't overlam it with roll based overlam without there being edging, and if you bend the ink too much it'll crack.


Solvent and latex... They're different, but neither is harder to work with than the other. Solvent does stretch a little further, but not much... If you try to stretch it by 150% it'll discolor very easily. The trick to both is knowing where / when to stretch... You stretch before the big stretch giving it as much slack as possible into the stretch, etc.

I do find with latex ink the Overland are isn't as strong .we've never had it peel off... But it always scared me how easily we could remove the overlam compared to ecosolvent. Doing layers may be a problem, but we never do layers so I can't attest to that.

When it's all said and done... We don't see either as being a problem .it's more the material that changes things, and our instaklers have aaorefference for. Avery vs 3m vs orafol, etc.

 

[WrapYourCar]

I am a wrap installer (not a printer) and I prefer Latex.

Dark colors on EcoSol where there is a lot of saturation makes the vinyl tear easier, "stringy" or aggressive or...I don't know how to describe it... It's like ecosol "eats" away at the vinyl and the darker colors apply differently (harder) then the lighter colors. There are already too many factors that effect how the vinyl behaves that specific day and adding in the variation of the effect of ecosol on the vinyl in dark colors compounds those problems. been years since I've installed with EcoSol inks though so I'm going on memory.

Most of the wraps I do are on location and outside...so my issues with how vinyl behaves may be more vastly magnified then someone that does them inside under the same conditions day in and day out.

I don't think I've used UV on a vehicle.

I would just refuse to do it outdoors.. too many issues wind/dust/rain/insects/too much sun/too much cold.. sounds like a recipe for disaster

 

[702 graphics]

Eco-solvent - The best out of the 3 as long as it was printed using the correct profiles.
Latex - Is good bust sometimes have a hard time getting pressure sensitive adhesive to stick with out having to go over it a second time.
UV - Is Trash. It takes away all the great proprieties of wrap vinyl.

 

[clarizeyale]

UV is not meant to be used for wrapping........... *facepalm*

Latex and eco-solvent are cool on our end.

 

[Jester1167]

They did develop a few UV inks that were elastic enough to wrap with, but they have some disadvantages. Where you have higher ink loads the vinyl doesn't like stretch as much or shrink back after being stretched or pre-stretched. If the wrong UV inks are used, it may look fine for a day or two then the inks will shatter like glass in high tension areas.(At one time camowraps material was printed on a Leggett & Platt printer with special UV inks.)

As crystalcoastgraphics said, Latex and Solvent both have their benefits. You just need to weigh about a dozen factors like, good local support, color gamut, speed, reliability, ink cost, printer or print/cutter work flow, rip, size (54 min but 60/64 is better), lots of others, and finally cost.

If you doing vertical panels use the 54" wide material. 60" wide panels are a pain solo, but can allow you to print a complete seamless side on some taller vehicles. No seams means less time and error lining things up... It is also nice when your selling banners by the square foot not to have to talk your customer into a smaller size banner.

I used to print when I was in KC but I'm just an installer now. If the solvent graphics are out-gassed properly, I could care less whether it's latex or solvents. At that point, the brand and material choice is more important. My material preferences are the same as Ikarasu's.

Advice, if your a last minute type of person or make lots of mistakes, choose the Latex, irregardless.

 

[CSOCSO]

stop saying you are wrapify certified that doesn't mean anything. You apply online and fill out some questions.