Wrong substrate used, any way to salvage?

[gnubler]

I recently took over a project in progress to replace an outdoor projecting building sign that sticks out above the sidewalk after it was blown down during a windstorm. The frame is designed to hold two oval 5x4 ft signs facing either direction (as opposed to one two-sided sign) and is suspended from the main bracket with chains. The original signs looked like they were painted on plywood and were frickin' heavy, so the customer insisted on using the lightest possible material for the new signs in case it falls down again. They were redone, printed vinyl on 3mil Sintra board, and this was where I entered the picture and delivered the job. The customer said he was doing the installation himself, which was fine because I wanted no part of it due to the liability.

A month has passed and I noticed the sign still hasn't gone back up. About a week after I delivered the job we had another major windstorm here. I have a hunch he's realized the boards aren't rigid enough for this purpose, or that the whole thing is just too big, period. His sign is easily twice the size of all the neighboring businesses, seems out of place. I want to check in and suggest getting a new projecting hanger to hold a smaller sign, and redo the thing on one piece of Dibond or aluminum, two-sided, maybe 3 feet wide at the most. Any better suggestions? If he insists on using the new Sintra signs, can they be reinforced or mounted to a stronger backer of some sort without adding too much weight? I want my customer to be happy and get this resolved without breaking the bank for either of us.

 

[litewave]

without seeing the design or surroundings quite difficult to guess what might be practical...

Frankly, not keen on sintra / foamex for architectural external signs. But if it's just a question of printed vinyl panels to cover up old, then guess it's ok and more about the overall graphic look.

Maybe client can be advised on better materials.

If it is to be sintra/foamex with a centre panel . You can easily control weight and rigidity...you could pick a solid plastic/polymer centre panel, need a bit heavier? Then increase thickness to suit.

If it's new design and say 3ft then maybe a single piece panel, rigid and opaque with suitable fixings is doable. If so then double sided is done.

Whilst 3ft is pretty manageable you've indicated high winds....be careful of swing-wind sails!
Perhaps consider talking to a structural engineer if going down the new bracket and panel route.

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Re: If he insists on using the new Sintra signs, can they be reinforced or mounted to a stronger backer of some sort without adding too much weight

Another potential solution might be to fix aluminium square or rectangular hollow profiles behind the sintra to reinforce them, then fix panels to existing structure.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

Could you build a frame or have one made that you can use 18oz. banner material with a tensioning system on the frame.
Out of all the signs I see here in Shenzhen China that should be made of lexan are made with banner material they even apply channel letters on it. I will take some pictures and post them, maybe you can get some ideas.

 

[visual800]

when you mention....or anyone mentions,"hanging from chains" I cringe. ANY sign of this nature is destined for fault. I would rather see an aluminum bracket supporting these signs. However not knowing what you are dealing with I cant say for sure how that would work

 

[Billct2]

I agree, PVC was the wrong material and the sign sounds like a problem waiting to happen. A new rigid frame with wall mount plates and aluminum faces would be the way to go.
Proper engineering and installation are essential.

 

[unclebun]

How are the signs "blowing down"? Fasteners pulling through the sign? Bracket falling off wall?

 

[Gino]

Whether you're putting it up or the customer is, you still need to give the customer a proper product which meets codes. How did you ever get permission to build a sign outta plastic to dangle from chains...... outside ??

How old and who made the original signs which blew down ??​

 

[gnubler]

Codes? They don't have those here. I only saw the aftermath piled in the back of a truck. The mounting brackets on the sign frame enjoyed their last ride and the whole thing broke free from the main support bar. Thanks all for the ideas, I'm going to suggest he consider a smaller sign and new hardware. The original signs are over 10 years old and far too heavy for this kind of display, in my opinion.

 

[unclebun]

Did the sign swing from the chains, or was it tied in four corners? I've seen swinging signs that lasted, but they had extremely tough hardware and the signs were very heavy. I think swinging signs only work if the sign and hardware are heavy. I've seen lightweight signs that, although they never came down, flapped so badly they thrashed everything else within reach.

If you're going to use chain, you need to think medieval in terms of the chain and fittings and sign. Otherwise a rigid mounting is far superior. Weight of plywood is not really a factor.

 

[CanuckSigns]

It was explained to me that when dealing with hanging signs that swing, the heavier the better, less movement in the wind.

 

[gnubler]

It was explained to me that when dealing with hanging signs that swing, the heavier the better, less movement in the wind.

That's what ended up happening. Customer is fastening the PVC to plywood sheets cut to fit and rehanging the whole thing. I have a bad feeling it's not over yet and will end up being redone using ACM.

 

[Pewter0000]

I don't think sintra is ever a good idea for an external sign. This for sure sounds like a alupanel job.
But like Gino said earlier, following a code might not be a priority for anyone there, but I hope that you at least get a liability waiver signed in case it blows down and smacks someone/someone's window. We get customers asking for cheap cheap cheap all the time, and sometimes it's better to just say "nope".

 

[CanuckSigns]

That's what ended up happening. Customer is fastening the PVC to plywood sheets cut to fit and rehanging the whole thing. I have a bad feeling it's not over yet and will end up being redone using ACM.

We don;t do many of these style of signs, mostly because our city doesn't allow them over sidewalks due to liability, but the few we have done that have gotten permits and exceptions for have all been fabricated from steel and weighed at least 150 lbs and they don't move an inch even in heavy winds!

 

[Inks]

6mm composite panel?