x6 color or dual x4 color configuration

[Baz]

I am in talks about purchasing a Roland VS 540 demo unit (3 months old) at a decent price. My concern or question is that this demo unit is configured at CCMMYK Lc Lm and from what i heard is the for optimal speed the best configuration would be CCMMYYKK.

Supplyer says it can't be reconfigured to another inkset and i would have to pay a couple of grand more to get a new unit and have it setup dual CMYK from the get go.

Does anyone have any on-hand experience with both setups? Does the Lc Lm really slow the machine down or not compared to dual CMYK. And is the Lc Lm really better at producing a wider color gammut? Better flesh tones, gradients and so forth?

 

[P Wagner]

I am in talks about purchasing a Roland VS 540 demo unit (3 months old) at a decent price. My concern or question is that this demo unit is configured at CCMMYK Lc Lm and from what i heard is the for optimal speed the best configuration would be CCMMYYKK.

Supplyer says it can't be reconfigured to another inkset and i would have to pay a couple of grand more to get a new unit and have it setup dual CMYK from the get go.

Does anyone have any on-hand experience with both setups? Does the Lc Lm really slow the machine down or not compared to dual CMYK. And is the Lc Lm really better at producing a wider color gammut? Better flesh tones, gradients and so forth?

Light inks (lc and lm) do not produce a wider gamut, but they may provide higher image quality in highlights and quarter tones. Their presence will slow down the throughput, but I don't know the specifics. Roland may publish those numbers on their site.

 

[Baz]

Yeah ... I should have checked on Roland's site first.

CMYK config: Standard vinyl speed @ 540x720 : 117 sq. ft. per hour
CMYK LC LM: Standard vinyl speed @ 540x720 : 58 sq. ft. per hour

Metallic configuration is stupidly low speed !!!

Looks like i'm going dual CMYK. As far as brighter colors. I think there are enough people on here with CMYK printers and we never really see threads in regards to people complaining and thinking they should have gone with Lc Lm.

Thank You.

 

[Robert M]

CMYK x 2

That is the way to go, we have set up printers both ways and you can't tell the difference from two feet. The current six color unit should be able to go back to 4 color, I know it is easy on the Mimaki JV33.
Look at the Mutoh Value jet, for 15k you get a 54" printer with take up and they are giving away a 52'' vinyl cutter.

 

[Baz]

I would think it wouldn't be that much of a big deal switching ink setups. Especially considering that it wasn't set up with white and metallic. Maybee it's just they don't want to deal with it and just want to sell off their demo with no fuss.

I don't see many Mutoh printers up here. It's mainly Roland, Mimaki and HP. Besides, i've been happy with my Roland printer/cutter and a 24" plotter. I have tons of blades, supplyers dealing with Roland inks. So i think i will stay with what i know.

I will try to work with Versaworks for starters but i think from what i read on here there are much better Rip programs that would produce nicer colors. I am right on that point?

 

[4R Graphics]

Not sure about the roland but my Mimaki JV33 switches easilly you just have to flush everything out (change lines but not necessary) then new dampners load inks fill and tell the rip what configuration you have and your done.

The roland should be no different most of these printers are almost identical few differences most of the difference is in the rip.

I think the seller just doesnt want to hassle with it and figures they can make a few more by telling you to buy another machine

I WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL dealing with a company that I believe is lazy and shady.

 

[Baz]

I'm not worried about this supplyer ... We have been doing business together for many years. They are really nice. Actually one of my favorite to deal with.

I think they just want to sell off their demo as it is and not have to put any tech work in it. The price for a new one is only 2k more. So my thoughts are why bother paying extra for a tech and go through the trouble of flushing ink lines, switching tubes and adapters resetting the machine when i can just purchase it new and set it up how i want it from the start.

 

[bloobird0]

if the demo unit is only 2K less than a new one, either the demo unit price is much too high or you get a really good price on the new one

On the mimaki, yes it is "easy" to change ink setup, but on a Roland VS machine, as far as I know the color setup switch is only possible in factory (things to do with the ink recirculation for white/metallic, I don't know the changes for 6 to 2x4 colors).

If you can afford the 2x4 setup, go for it you won't see much difference between both setups.

 

[robredick]

It isn't the supplier it is the Roland that will not allow the change. I have a 640 with the white and silver. The silver is useless, but we use white every day. I believe that the speed of the CMYKLcLm quoted above is the VS with white and silver not the double C & M. Our 640 is a tank that works and works. The only issue that we have had is the silver. If you are going to print car wraps with your VS go Double CMYK. If you are going to print high quality things that are seen from a distance of 1'-6' go with the Lc and Lm. That quality can not be touched.

 

[bilge]

I would download VS manual and see whether is it interchangeable in 6 color to 4 color.
I have RA 640 runs dual CMYK. It is same platform as VS machines without cutter. It also has 6 color version at factory set.
Before I had 3 different mimaki's either 6 or dual 4 colors.
Short comparision: 6 colors dual for photo, good skin tones,bronzing in bi-dir at hi speed, slow, x2 sharper in small detail
4 colors for graphics, bright color, even at both uni-& bi- direction, exactly x2 faster than 6 color set, grainy

 

[xxtoni]

It isn't the supplier it is the Roland that will not allow the change. I have a 640 with the white and silver. The silver is useless, but we use white every day. I believe that the speed of the CMYKLcLm quoted above is the VS with white and silver not the double C & M. Our 640 is a tank that works and works. The only issue that we have had is the silver. If you are going to print car wraps with your VS go Double CMYK. If you are going to print high quality things that are seen from a distance of 1'-6' go with the Lc and Lm. That quality can not be touched.

I agree on almost all points. We have aftermarket inks running on our VS-640 with white and metalics. We threw the white and metalic out and just put in eco solvent cartridges into those lines instead. For us the white and metalics had a very limited use.

When we were first discussing installing bulk inks we considered converting it to Dual CMYKs but ultimately decided against doing so. The improvement in speed wasn't that important for us as we have another production printer for doing banners, billboards and so on that runs on dirt cheap mild solvent. Our deadlines for the high quality stuff are never that tight that we need the speed of a dual-CMYK system. But converting it to Dual CMYK is certainly possible if you try to do it yourself, possibly risky though.

My thoughts are, if you've bought a LcLM machine keep it as such.

I would download VS manual and see whether is it interchangeable in 6 color to 4 color.
I have RA 640 runs dual CMYK. It is same platform as VS machines without cutter. It also has 6 color version at factory set.
Before I had 3 different mimaki's either 6 or dual 4 colors.
Short comparision: 6 colors dual for photo, good skin tones,bronzing in bi-dir at hi speed, slow, x2 sharper in small detail
4 colors for graphics, bright color, even at both uni-& bi- direction, exactly x2 faster than 6 color set, grainy

If I remember correctly you can basically enter the service menu and set it to dual CMYK but you have to clear or possibly replace the lines and flush out the metalics and whites from the head and even replace the cap station. So while it should be possible I wouldn't personally do it.

I'd agree on most of what you said except the exactly 2x faster/slower.