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Ya win some... and ya lose some......................................

Discussion in 'Tips & Tricks' started by Gino, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    Jun 7, 2006
    I know there have been countless threads and stories about the non-use of red, black and other dark colors on glass, but here is one where we are doing the electric signs, wall signs and some interior signs and now the guy wants his logo on the front door.

    Customer: Will ya letter my front door so people know which door to use ??
    Me: Sure. We'll make the maroon portion white and the black part tan or medium grey, Okay ??
    Customer: Why ??
    Me: So it stands out on the glass. You can't use your dark logo colors on glass. No one will see it.
    Customer: So, I want to keep my logo colors. That's a must.
    Me: But it won't do you any good. You won't see it at all. Like I said, no one will see it.
    Customer: Well, that's what I want.
    Me: If you're serious, Okay, but I don't think you'll like it.
    Customer: I'll like it. It's my logo colors and I want to stay uniform.
    front door.jpg
    Me: Okay, that'll be an additional $88.00 + tax
    Customer: No problem, I really like it
    Me: Yep, me too..............:rolleyes:

    That logo was created by his wife some years ago along with the color guide. Their building is all maroon and black inside. A very bleak place.

    Happy New Year !!

  2. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

    Sep 24, 2004
    white outline will take care of it
  3. ChicagoGraphics

    ChicagoGraphics Major Contributor

    Feb 27, 2007
    You got 88 bucks for that?
  4. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    Jun 7, 2006
    Yeah, I know. I mentioned the outline, also. Nope, it's not my color scheme. Some people should be shot right between the frickin' eyes.
  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    Jun 7, 2006

    Yeah.... and that's a deal. :wink: We usually charge out at around $188. for a door installation, but we were already there doing a lot already, so I cut him a break.
  6. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

    Dec 24, 2003
    Butler, PA
    Unfortunately, most customers refuse to listen to good advice. Particularly those who let their wife "design" their nasty logo.
  7. TyrantDesigner

    TyrantDesigner Art! Hot and fresh.

    Mar 9, 2011
    Amarillo, TX
    wife, nephew, son/daughter, etc, etc, etc.

    Well, it's straight and if he likes it, take the money and run.

    Charge double when people can't read it.
  8. Mike Paul

    Mike Paul Major Contributor

    Dec 30, 2003
  9. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

    Sep 10, 2010
    I dunno..............................................................................................Do what they want?.............................................................................black and red.........................no good...............
  10. Joe Diaz

    Joe Diaz Very Active Member

    Had a lady stop in and want lettering for her storefront window. Since she was starting a new business we tried selling her on a logo. She already had one she said. It was just a font she had found. Fair enough, it wasn't that bad honestly, so we started discussing the details of her window job. She of-course wanted dark brown. We tried talking her into a lighter color like white or ivory. We are usually pretty good at talking the client into something that shows up. She said no. She had to have dark brown. Then I said, what if we did a two color layout? The lettering will be light, and your dark brown will be a border/drop-shadow. She was willing to give that a try. Great. Then we found out she needed it done by the end of the week but was unwilling to pay the rush charge. :frustrated: We should have opened with "how soon?" LOL I love how some people wait days before they open to worry about their business's image. So it just didn't work out and she had someone else do it. No big deal.

    I pass this store on the way to work almost every day. Funny thing is, who ever she had do it, didn't get it done by the end of the week, but two weeks later, which we would have also been able to do within that time period. Plus the other place did the lettering in just dark brown, like she originally wanted. Honestly it's harder to see then black.

    And of course who calls a week or so later? You guessed it. My guess is she didn't want to listen to the professionals, but probably had a few of her friends or customers comment on how hard it was to read. She starts off saying we were right and wanted to know what we could do to fix it. We said we would take the old vinyl down and redo it the way we discussed with light lettering and the brown drop-shadow. She didn't like the idea of removing something she had already paid the other shop to do, then asked if we could just put a white border around it? I said: First, dark lettering with a light border will be better than what you have, but it is still less than ideal and isn't as easy to read if the lettering were lighter. Second, since we didn't do the original lettering, it would take time for us to measure what was done so we can create a border that fits perfectly around lettering that we didn't make. It might cost the same, maybe just a little more to just redo the whole thing, and then it would be done right. She asked if there were any other options. We said you could put a light color curtain or blinds behind it, of course that will cover up your window display but that is your other option.

    She said she would call back and she didn't. A couple weeks later I'm walking by and I see a real thin white border PAINTED on, and part of it is already flaking off.:Big Laugh If she calls again she wont receive any other advice (that she will probably just ignore again) without some sort of down payment. But at least we can't be blamed for the monstrosity that is her storefront.
  11. Locals Find!

    Locals Find! Very Active Member

    Oct 17, 2010
    Fort Myers
    You titled this win some lose some. Seems to me you lost nothing on this deal. Getting $88 for that. Hell, seems you won and the client won. Regardless of your personal feelings of whether or not it looks good. Client is happy, your happy you got paid very well over what most other shops would have charged.

    No losers at all in this situation.

    I think you just like wanted to brag you pulled off getting $88 for that.
  12. Joe Diaz

    Joe Diaz Very Active Member

    The client loses because a bad image or an illegible signage results in less sales. And you as a sign maker CAN lose as a result because less profitable clients whose businesses cannot grow, will mean less repeat business. We have found repeat business to be more profitable, since much of the heavy lifting has been done and when they return for more work that trust has been earned, they should know your policies, you have gathered most of their info, know their brand, etc.

    Also the more subpar work a sign shop is willing to do, the worst their reputation will become over time.
  13. d fleming

    d fleming Very Active Member

    Nov 28, 2007
    Middleburg, Florida
    Gon the money asusal Joe

    On the money as usual Joe
  14. wildside

    wildside Very Active Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    That is a fair price for sure. Selling it less than that is a disservice to yourself and clients. Image costs money. Front door lettering starts at 75 for one color simple and goes up from there. Just because you dont think its worth anything dont mean it isnt.

    This industry would benefit greatly from looking at every opportunity for a sale as a opportunity to enhance and increase a business image. There is a value involved, not a how much for a pound mentality when it come to business images. Perceived value outweighs any square foot price by far.

    Some of us live in small communities and yes it is difficult, but doable for sure. If a new client wants a cheap way good for them, but cheap image often results in cheap performance. What if the company spent a little more upfront and ends with thousands more in sales in the end because of it..... ask your clients if spending 50 bucks more today is worth 500 more later in their pocket....it can and does happen.
  15. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

    Jun 16, 2005
    the only thing I see, is the light and address sign are not centered on the door. :rolleyes:

    Damn electricians!!!
  16. signcrafters london

    signcrafters london Very Active Member

    May 22, 2010
    London KY
    I did a door and a couple of windows for a national insurance chain recently. All the glass is tinted dark. Their logo colors are red, black and blue. I outlined everything in white. When he submitted photos, they refused to reimburse him unless we got rid of the white. We gave them photos to show that without the white you won't be able to read it at all; but still they wouldn't budge.

    So now you can read his windows with his agency name from 100 yards away, but have no idea with what company he is affiliated because you have to be standing on top of their logo to read it. Some people just can't be helped.
  17. Craig Sjoquist

    Craig Sjoquist Major Contributor

    Jun 18, 2004
    What does it say ??..what do they do ??
  18. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

    Mar 9, 2004
    How Much Would Addie Charge?
  19. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

    Dec 27, 2005
    Guam USA
    try to upsell the costumer with a nice lite reflective bronze tint on the door.
    Even silver would work but the bronze would match the wood better.

    wayne k
    guam usa
  20. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    Jun 7, 2006
    Thanks for the input from everyone.

    Addie, I wasn't bragging in the least. In fact, as I mentioned, we get $188.00 to do a door on site.... I gave this guy a deal at $88. However, that was only to indicate what HE spent [and quite willingly]. Not really about is it too much or wrong to do so.

    The win some/lose some....... has nothing to do with anyone but me. I lost because I couldn't convince this guy to use a good color combination. Therefore, anyone seeing that in the future, might think poorly of us and reconsider using us.

    Once in this business for an extended amount of time, like me..... I consider it a failure, even if the customer likes it. What does he/she know about these kinda things ?? They just grin from ear to ear when they see their new brightly flashy name is up on the wall or on a truck. They're not looking at advertising, layout, balance, colors, kerning or anything else. Just what they paid for and they usually want it their way. When I see someone making a big mistake like this, I try like crazy to educate them so they can make a good decision. Sometimes it just doesn't work and I hafta give in and just collect the money and leave.

    The rest of his signs are fine...... balance-wise and color-wise. It was just this door, I couldn't get him to see eye to eye. The whole job is worth about $2,400.00 + tax. This part represented $88, so Addie, don't worry about what I get, but how many 50" televisions you're buying for customers. Like I'm bragging....... ?? I'm beginning to wonder if you even live in Florida...... the one the rest of the world knows down there at the bottom of the peninsula. :ROFLMAO:

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