Yeah ... but paint PEELS!

[The Hobbyist]

Lots of questions...

I am jumping into dimensional sign making. I designed my first sign for a friend who lives in a historic part of town. Her sign is a "Circa ####" plaque with the address and "The (name) family"

She saw the proof I designed in V-Carve PRO online and headed out to her neighbors to take orders! Sheesh! I haven't even BEGUN to carve HDU yet and I already have seven people wanting signs for their homes.

I am going to carve this out of precision board which I just ordered.

So, my CNC table can carve the sign, and I can sand it but my big concern is, PAINT PEELS!

I have read threads here that talk about a basic primer and then latex paints. REALLY?

What is FSC-88 and where do I find it?

Is there a source for SPRAY latex paints and primers, or do I just invest in an airless sprayer and an airbrush?

Do I just brush gloss or satin or matt paints onto the primer and just trust that the sign will not be peeling two or three years later?

What should I use to achieve that highly polished gloss finish?

Do you coat your signs with a clear coat, and if so, which one?

Where do I find these paints. Should I go to Hobby Lobby and buy pints of 100 different colors, or just get quarts at Home Depot? I don't have unlimited funds, but I wouldn't blink at spending a thousand dollars to set up an initial paint source in my shop.

Finally, do you use regular brushes, or those foam brushes or ??? I am fairly innovative, but HDU dimensional signs is a whole new world for me!

 

[signguy 55]

Sounds like you are way in over your head.

There have been many articles in signcraft and posts here on this board that covers your questions.

Mike Jackson had a great article in Signcraft several years ago about making samples for yourself before you start selling to the public.

I can imagine hiring an electrician to wire my new house and find out he's asking others what tools, what gauges of wire to use and going on youtube to watch videos.
You want to be in the sign business, learn to be in the sign business.

For must of us before the computer and internet age we had to find out on our own what worked and didn't . It was very secretive at that time and hard to get a pro to tell you where he bought his paint and brushes.

Now we expect everything to be handed to use without any effort on our part. Good luck.

 

[Gino]

NO, it doesn't peel if done correctly.

As the previous poster said, you're in over your head. All the things you need to know cannot be learned in a crash course on the internet. You must learn it, do it, make mistakes and set goals to better yourself. If you're selling signs that you don't know how to make, then look for another hobby. Either take the job to someone who can do it or tell these people, you don't know basically what you're talking about OR offering.

Not that the questions are bad enough, but your accusations are worse...... and proves you don't have a clue.

 

[Billct2]

They're only house signs, what 16"x18"? Just do a little research on how to prime & paint, I'm sure Precision Board has a spec sheet.
But I wouldn't do high gloss, that isn't really appropriate for a sign on a historic building, use a quality latex trim paint for the final coat.
Hand painting should be fine.

 

[rjssigns]

Call the maker of the HDU you're going to use. They will have recommended finishes.

As far as being in over your head go for it. Good way to learn IMO. On more than one occasion my wife asked me WTH I was doing bidding certain jobs. Got through them, clients were happy, and I learned a whole new skill set.


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go". - T.S. Elliot.

 

[The Hobbyist]

Wow! how many grumpy pills did you take this morning? Way to make a new member feel welcomed!

I am not asking you to "hand" me anything. I just don't want to buy a lot of paint that I cannot use.

With 675,000 miles of motorcycle riding experience under my belt both for pleasure and as a professional motorcycle courier, if YOU asked me questions about motorcycles, I certainly would no tell you to "figure it out for yourself!" I would tell you everything I could, to help you avoid a terrible accident or a costly mistake.

As for experience, I have worked (in the 80s) for several sign fab shops including federal Signs in Oceanside, CA. I made raceways and channel letters, plex faces with trim cap and foam letter cut with band saws, as well as lettering cut with table saws and other tools. I was deeply involved in making all of the signs and accessories for the Riviera Casino in Las Vegas when they had their "Splash!" show running. Look at any Chief Auto, Schucks or other auto parts store sign that is part of that chain, and you will probably see signs *I* made for them, by cutting and laying the vinyl, and assembling the cans, etc.

My CNC tables are quite capable of carving the signs out of nearly any material, and in fact, I have already carved wood, low density foams and PVC board with great success.

This is my first attempt at using and painting HDU. I am quite sure I WILL figure it out for myself, but I thought that you guys n' gals with more experience in THIS aspect of sign making might point me in the right direction.

I don't know why you are bearing your fangs, and I don't know what "Accusations" you believe I have made. I came to what I THOUGHT was a friendly forum to ask some questions about paints and primers, and you're jumping down my throat. WTF?

Do you feel threatened by a retired guy (58) who is going to make a few signs for friends and neighbors in his HOBBY shop? It isn't as if I am going to open a nationwide chain of shops! I am ONE GUY in a small town of 8,000 people, and I can't dance. So I use my shop tools to make things, and it looks like people might want to pay a buck or two for them.

 

[PainterDave]

if you want a perfect high gloss finish on HDU its a very long process and can get expensive. i can walk you through it if you like. but like i said its a long process and dont care to type it all out unless you really want it

 

[The Hobbyist]

Either take the job to someone who can do it or tell these people, you don't know basically what you're talking about OR offering.

Don't worry. This is a poor area and a small community. If I didn't make these, they probably would not BE made. I am not taking any food off of your dinner plate.

Not that the questions are bad enough, but your accusations are worse...... and proves you don't have a clue.

What "Accusations" ???



.

 

[Marlene]

Wow! how many grumpy pills did you take this morning? Way to make a new member feel welcomed!

I am not asking you to "hand" me anything. I just don't want to buy a lot of paint that I cannot use. With 675,000 miles of motorcycle riding experience under my belt both for pleasure and as a professional motorcycle courier, if YOU asked me questions about motorcycles, I certainly would no tell you to "figure it out for yourself!" I would tell you everything I could, to help you avoid a terrible accident or a costly mistake.

As for experience, I have worked (in the 80s) for several sign fab shops including federal Signs in Oceanside, CA. I made raceways and channel letters, plex faces with trim cap and foam letter cut with band saws, as well as lettering cut with table saws and other tools. I was deeply involved in making all of the signs and accessories for the Riviera Casino in Las Vegas when they had their "Splash!" show running. Look at any Chief Auto, Schucks or other auto parts store sign that is part of that chain, and you will probably see signs *I* made for them, by cutting and laying the vinyl, and assembling the cans, etc.

My CNC tables are quite capable of carving the signs out of nearly any material, and in fact, I have already carved wood, low density foams and PVC board with great success.

This is my first attempt at using and painting HDU. I am quite sure I WILL figure it out for myself, but I thought that you guys n' gals with more experience in THIS aspect of sign making might point me in the right direction.

I don't know why you are bearing your fangs, and I don't know what "Accusations" you believe I have made. I came to what I THOUGHT was a friendly forum to ask some questions about paints and primers, and you're jumping down my throat. WTF?

Do you feel threatened by a retired guy (58) who is going to make a few signs for friends and neighbors in his HOBBY shop? It isn't as if I am going to open a nationwide chain of shops! I am ONE GUY in a small town of 8,000 people, and I can't dance. So I use my shop tools to make things, and it looks like people might want to pay a buck or two for them.

what you see as "grumpy" were good suggestions as to how to find the paint that will work for you. they did point you in the right direction by suggesting looking at step by steps that have been printed in trade mags, calling the manufacture to ask what products work the best on their product to yes, hand painting would be fine. was going to add to the list of ideas but was totally turned off by your snarky response. it was uncalled for and totally unprofessional. you said "paint peels" but it doesn't when done right so it made people feel like you were over your head.

 

[James Burke]

Round 2. It started out like this last week, too.


JB

 

[The Hobbyist]

if you want a perfect high gloss finish on HDU its a very long process and can get expensive. i can walk you through it if you like. but like i said its a long process and dont care to type it all out unless you really want it

Hi Dave,

Well, not for THIS project, as I believe a nice satin or "eggshell" finish would work best for estate signs.

However, I see HDU props at trade shows that have a very high gloss finish, and I am wondering, do they spray it with resin, or ???

Signs are only one of my interests. I am also looking into fabrication of 3D sculptures made out of HDU. Also, (perhaps I am wrong? ) doesn't a gloss finish do a better job of repelling dirt and things like bird droppings and tree sap, etc? It would seem to me that something outside with a flat finish would be more difficult to clean, than the same item with a hard, gloss finish.

I may drift into making HDU high end Halloween props such as tombstones, and mausoleums, and caskets, etc. I will certainly dive into Christmas decorations of a lawn placement or roof mount variety, as well as other things people may wish to have. A local gun store wants some large mock ups of various handguns and rifles. My machines can do that.

I work when I want to, and rest when I need to, and if I don't enter my shop for a month, oh well. I can still pay the bills.


.

 

[The Hobbyist]

They're only house signs, what 16"x18"? Just do a little research on how to prime & paint, I'm sure Precision Board has a spec sheet.
But I wouldn't do high gloss, that isn't really appropriate for a sign on a historic building, use a quality latex trim paint for the final coat.
Hand painting should be fine.

Thank you. See, I know what I used to use to paint WOOD signs, but I haven't worked with HDU yet. Apparently there is no appreciable difference in the paints used, or the application process.

I don't know why people took my observation that paint peels as a personal attack. I didn't say the signs you people make peel. I didn't say paint peels off of HDU signs! I said paint peels. Look at any home with wooden trim. Look at any brick building with a sign on the wall that was painted years ago. Look at some of today's CAR HOODS! It is a fact that paint peels.

Now maybe, when properly applied to HDU that is not an issue, and I sure hope that is right. I would sleep better knowing that signs I may make will not look like they were left behind when an old carnival closed down, a couple of years after I make them.

I suppose I will pay a visit to my local Lowe's and Hobby lobby to look into latex paints and primers. I haven't painted ANY signs in over 30 years, so excuse me if I am not on top of modern sign painting supplies and processes. Never too old to learn, I guess.



.

 

[Gino]

Don't worry. This is a poor area and a small community. If I didn't make these, they probably would not BE made. I am not taking any food off of your dinner plate.

I have no problems with competition or being competitive, but I do have a problem with someone who thinks this/your way. So narrow-minded with blinders on and defending doing something your way, when there are so many correct ways to do something. Evidently, you don't see a need to investigate or research your new-found niche on your own. You'd rather come here, condemn the best way to do something and then complain, when the truth hits you dead between the eyes, regardless of how it's delivered.

Granted my ways are harsh, but if you need to tell me all about your 675k miles of motorcycling or helping out someone who might crash and kill themselves, then compare that to painting a $150 sign...... be my guest.


What "Accusations" ??? All the accusations of paint peeling. You're way off with that, too.

.

So, you wanna save time, effort and get right to the point by coming here, huh ?? I take it then, you expect to get your most professional advise and wisdom within these walls of s101, huh ?? Yet, when people who think you're in over your head disagree with you, they are grumpy ?? Stealing from them/you ?? Who do you think you are that you CAN read our minds, but we have NO clue about you ?? Coming here, before any place else, is probably the only thing you did correctly, but you grossly misused the information you received.

I wish you no harm, but don't you think you ought to either.....

1. Do this on the materials you feel comfortable with using from your past ??​

or​

2. Learn about the product you are trying to pawn off on people before you promise it ??​

I get it.... everyone's background and upbringing is different, but expecting others to just be cordial to you because you want some information that you have no idea about what you are doing is a little bit naive on your part. Anyway, the part about not getting any flack about.

 

[The Hobbyist]

I fail to understand the purpose of posting your private message to me on this public forum.

But you're right. Paint DOESN'T peel!

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....4.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..9.4.739.i6liTbEbyVk

 

[PainterDave]

you are correct, high gloss finishes are durable and matte finishes are not. I do new York auto show, Detroit, some in Dubai etc etc all of general motors, bmw, aud,i mini cooper, etc etc so if it is any of those brands I probably painted it, I also do a ton of 3D displays, cars, robots, etc

 

[PRS Bryan]

Honestly, I expect people to be cordial to me because I am cordial to them, the golden rule and all.

Perhaps I am naive also.

 

[Gino]

I fail to understand the purpose of posting your private message to me on this public forum.

But you're right. Paint DOESN'T peel!

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....4.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..9.4.739.i6liTbEbyVk

Now what are you talking about ?? I didn't send you any PM's or e-mails. Not that I know of.

 

[Jillbeans]

I have a friend who USED to do routed HDU signs, and they quit making them because the paint did indeed peel.
If memory serves, they were using Precision Board and what cause the peeling was their brand of primer. I think the top coat paint was Ben Moore, but the primer caused the failure.
I think the key is to wash off your HDU with a hose after all the sanding. Some folks prime and some don't. I think Jay Cooke's is a preferred primer. I used KILZ on mine, but they were all just small jobs.
(I have only ever made about 5 of these things)
I would use a good house paint, not 1Shot. You can paint using cheap China chip brushes, foamies, or fitches. It's not rocket science, just make sure you keep things clean and use good materials.
Love....Jill

 

[Gino]

Another thing Hobby.................

Don't you think if you put a google search out there for 'PAINT PEELING' all you're gonna get is pictures of "paint peeling" ??

Painting HDU, gatorboard, wood, metal, plastic anyfrickin'thing...... it's all the same. It's all about prepping and prepping correctly. If you don't remove all overspray, dust, sanding dust, grit or debris... your paint will hold to the crap you leave behind. Clean properly, tack off and keep all the surfaces clean, then even the lousy materials will have a chance of lasting. Using house paint to paint a sign is always a good idea, if you don't know where else to go, but remember, most house paints are only given a 3 to 5 year life expectancy. Most bulletins or lettering paints will give you closer to 10 years according to if you do it correctly.

 

[player]

The board is made with tiny bubbles in it. To get a nice finish you have to fill or cover the bubbles, usually with multiple coats of your favorite secret high build primer, sanding between coats. The higher the density the foam is, the smaller the bubbles and the easier it is to fill and cover, but it is also more expensive. Some brands of board are easier than others to work with, so you will have to find your own secret board brand as well.