Yellow Ink Dissappeared!

[Kentucky Wraps]

I printed 10,000 business card sized decals using Rolands eco-sol Ink on my vp540. They had blue, red, yellow, black, green and white in the design. Printed on Orajet, not laminated and placed on top of trash cans throughout neighborhoods. This is a 3 year outdoor ink without laminate!

My customer brings in some stickers that have only been out for 3 months. The yellow has vanished!!! the blue is fine, black is fine...but yellow turned to white, red turned pink and green turned blue. Basically anywhere there was yellow ink, changed. The other colors didn't fade...no chemicals were used on these decals...just the problem with the Yellow.
Roland says they never got my samples (so they can run tests). They just threw a pack of 4 small inks at me and said my problem was resolved to THIER satisfaction. The only explanation I can reasonably think for this to happen is a bad batch of THIER INK. And now I have to reprint all those decals (more ink, more time, more vinyl) free of charge to my customer. Lord knows what would happen if customers from that time frame brought back thier products with vanishing yellow ink.
Any thoughts???

 

[Mosh]

Scary, that could get expensive.

 

[chopper]

I printed 10,000 business card sized decals using Rolands eco-sol Ink on my vp540. They had blue, red, yellow, black, green and white in the design. Printed on Orajet, not laminated and placed on top of trash cans throughout neighborhoods. This is a 3 year outdoor ink without laminate!

My customer brings in some stickers that have only been out for 3 months. The yellow has vanished!!! the blue is fine, black is fine...but yellow turned to white, red turned pink and green turned blue. Basically anywhere there was yellow ink, changed. The other colors didn't fade...no chemicals were used on these decals...just the problem with the Yellow.
Roland says they never got my samples (so they can run tests). They just threw a pack of 4 small inks at me and said my problem was resolved to THIER satisfaction. The only explanation I can reasonably think for this to happen is a bad batch of THIER INK. And now I have to reprint all those decals (more ink, more time, more vinyl) free of charge to my customer. Lord knows what would happen if customers from that time frame brought back thier products with vanishing yellow ink.
Any thoughts???

I don't think you can guarantee them with out laminate,
I could see it burning off from uv, this kinda stuff is why I switched to triangle
//chopper

 

[CS-SignSupply]

Most ink tests are done using a vertical application. 3 months is still pretty lightweight.

I noticed yellow from the old colorcamm would fade first (usually leaving a magenta or dark image) after 6 months outside on a surface with high sun/uv exposure.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I don't think you can guarantee them with out laminate,
I could see it burning off from uv, this kinda stuff is why I switched to triangle
//chopper

Roland says it's a 3 year outdoor ink without laminate before it fades.
If that's not the case then either they need to say that...or cover my
expenses for a faulty product.
At least in an honest and respectful world.

 

[ddarlak]

wierd, my yellow is the last to go. i have some samples where the red and black are gone from existance, but the yellow and blue are like the day i printed them...

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Most ink tests are done using a vertical application. 3 months is still pretty lightweight.

I noticed yellow from the old colorcamm would fade first (usually leaving a magenta or dark image) after 6 months outside on a surface with high sun/uv exposure.

I understand sun can beat it up...but only 3 months...and ONLY yellow. Not faded...vanished completely from the entire print. 3 months vs. 3 year. Come on...if it were even a year I would probably say it's plausible.

 

[CS-SignSupply]

I can agree with you on that.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

What would You guys do? What should Roland do? How would YOU handle this if it happened to you?

 

[CS-SignSupply]

Send them a sample of the damaged decal and one freshly printed (or not used). Let them test it. They might find an issue the are unaware of??

Send them the serial/batch number on the yellow ink cartridge used as well.

Then go from there.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Send them a sample of the damaged decal and one freshly printed (or not used). Let them test it. They might find an issue the are unaware of??

Send them the serial/batch number on the yellow ink cartridge used as well.

Then go from there.

I don't keep track of what ink batches I use. I throw away my cartridges. It was months ago. I DID send them the good and bad samples.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

That is a drag.

I switched from OEM to Triangle for these kind of issues as well, but Triangle is making some funky batches lately so I'm on the OEM again after three years.

I'm not looking forward to the calls about "ink rubbing off", "fading", "scratching".

I don't care what Roland says about odor. I cut a hole into the top of my machine and am venting outside. I also have the machine boxed up so all the off gassing from the take up goes outside as well.

I did all this because Triangle is pretty strong, but Roland is just as bad. Just a different smell is all.

 

[ProWraps]

we laminate everything. oracal 200 lam is .25 sq/ft. if you are not charging enough to do the job correctly, then you have just learned the results. like they say, education is not free.

as far as what roland or anyone says their inks will do, its worthless. they are giving you best case scenario, on a media of their choice, vertically, under their test conditions.

 

[JoshLoring]

Laminate. If you don't keep track of the material and lot number you are screwed. Nobody in their right mind will warranty anything without being able to reference a lot.

We keep the Material Lot, Lamination lot, Printer settings, Room temperature and everything in a log for everything we print in case we ever have to warranty.

Also.. Roland ink is good for 3 years on vertical surfaces on "Roland" material.
Use anything else and you are subject to the material manufacturer warranty. You would have to take that up with Oracal and NOT Roland. If your not Oracal Certified.. Good luck

Sorry for the bad news but without a log who's to say they aren't older then that? And as I said above Roland Ink is good on "Roland" material... Since your using Oracal they wont warranty it. We are OCS certified for 5 years on that sticker stuff and 7 years on wraps.. Look into Certification it will cover you.

http://www.oracal.com/_pdf/ORALIFE_Form_030108.pdf

 

[JoshLoring]

Now that I think about it.... Why would you print 10,000 stickers on your roland when you can outsource that size sticker for less than you can print it? I think I can get that qty for under 120$ at that size. I save labor, and more.

 

[ProWraps]

josh i feel you. but the only thing that would do what you are talking about is screen print (considering he didnt lam and needs a better alternative).

the real issue here is he didnt do the job correctly. 10K stickers in the size he did, we would be happy to do. but we would have done it right. oracal 200 lam at least. for god sakes it would have been like .003 cents per decal.

this is a lesson in learning. for god sakes we PAY for so much learning its redic. this is low level learning, but learning non the less.

its a simple pleasure pain theory. there is no scratch without itch, there is no pleasure without pain.

learn from your mistake and do it right the next time.

 

[houseofgrafix]

That is crazy..
I have a SP300v and when I got my printer i put some decals outside on the trashcan.
Without Lam.. This was 2 years last month and they still look fine.
It was alot of yellow smiliey faces... And I'm in New Mexico with crazy summer sun!

 

[JoshLoring]

What profile did you use to print the stickers with in versaworks? I guess I should have asked that first.
Default Roland profiles have the wrong ink setup for Oracal.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

we laminate everything. oracal 200 lam is .25 sq/ft. if you are not charging enough to do the job correctly, then you have just learned the results. like they say, education is not free.

as far as what roland or anyone says their inks will do, its worthless. they are giving you best case scenario, on a media of their choice, vertically, under their test conditions.

The problem is...that's not spelled out in thier 3 yr outdoor life statement. My point is you should be able to take a manufacturers word on thier product or hold them accountable to thier claims. Some would call that "False Advertising". I laminate "most" of my jobs. But to say Charge enough to do the job "correctly" is kinda weird. It's funny how you try to make it my fault by not laminating when the issue is I'M trying to hold Roland Accountable to thier Product Claims. Laminate is NOT part of that claim.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

That is crazy..
I have a SP300v and when I got my printer i put some decals outside on the trashcan.
Without Lam.. This was 2 years last month and they still look fine.
It was alot of yellow smiliey faces... And I'm in New Mexico with crazy summer sun!

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone who is adressing the ISSUE of the YELLOW INK dissappearing after 3 months and none others! These didn't need to last for years...but the ink should not have faded...THAT'S why I didn't laminate them.