Yellow turns green in sunlight.

[Souldar]

yeah, we just did a truck wrap that was yellow and black. It looked great in the shop, perfect match. The second I started I was horrified to see that the yellow turned green. Took a picture and sent it to the client and at first they were OK with how it looked in the photo. When they showed up they were not happy at all and we have to redo the whole wrap.
I am printing on Avery 1105 with 1605 laminate using a Roland VP 540i. But I do remember the shop I used to work at having this problem with yellows and tans going green in the sunlight. Was running the router there so I have no idea how they fixed the problem. Any advice.

 

[OhioSigns]

It sounds like your lighting is not accurate. Lights are rated on a CRI index of how accurate they are compared to natural sunlight. If you have a Pantone book there should be a lighting indicator to see how accurate your lighting is. If you can see a difference in the two swatches your lighting is not accurate. If you don't see a difference then it is accurate. You will probably need to pick out new colors to use...... Take your swatch book or chart outside on a sunny day to have them pick colors.

 

[iPrintStuff]

What he said. The sunlight is right, the shop lights are wrong.

Are you profiling your own media’s etc also? Calibrated screens?

Would suggest printing a few swatches and have a look at them outside. After all, the wrap will be driving about outdoors 99% of the time anyway.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If you are using fluorescent lighting, I think 5000k at a minimum should be used. We use 6500k daylight bulbs in our paint booths and still get color shifting.

 

[Souldar]

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. I have been lobbying to get new bulbs that emulate the sunlight spectrum at least for the print room. The boss isn't thrilled about the cost but a couple more fiascos when we forget what happened today and maybe we will.

 

[Inks]

If you are using fluorescent lighting, I think 5000k at a minimum should be used. We use 6500k daylight bulbs in our paint booths and still get color shifting.

5000K is the neutral light used to view color

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I have daylight lighting and that really helps. I see very little difference inside VS outside with them. You need to have the right color lamps in your shop... nothing "soft white" or that pink hue to it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. I have been lobbying to get new bulbs that emulate the sunlight spectrum at least for the print room. The boss isn't thrilled about the cost but a couple more fiascos when we forget what happened today and maybe we will.

Really though, you should know what your colors are going to be before you print them. I can't see printing and installing an entire wrap not knowing what the end result is going to look like outside. Who setup the file? Sounds like there is a bigger problem here than the lighting.

 

[Inks]

I have daylight lighting and that really helps. I see very little difference inside VS outside with them. You need to have the right color lamps in your shop... nothing "soft white" or that pink hue to it.

Exactly - 5000K which is neutral 3500K is warm and 6500K is cool.
Since we match colors daily and sell inks for printing we have a box with warm, cool and neutral lamps. In most cases the color looks different under each light. Most large printers use 5000K lamps to view color.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Exactly - 5000K which is neutral 3500K is warm and 6500K is cool.
Since we match colors daily and sell inks for printing we have a box with warm, cool and neutral lamps. In most cases the color looks different under each light. Most large printers use 5000K lamps to view color.

6500 is daylight. That is the standard for paint booths, don't know about printers.
Here cut and paste:
Color temperature is measured in Kelvin (K), and there are three common ranges: Warm Light (2700K-3000K); Cool White (3000K-5000K), and Daylight (5000K-6500K). Warm Light resembles the color of an incandescent; looking orange or yellow. ... Daylight ranges from Blue-White (5000K) to Bright Blue (6500K)

 

[Bobby H]

6500 is daylight. That is the standard for paint booths, don't know about printers.

No. The color temperature of sunlight changes throughout the day. At its brightest during midday it will be around 6500K. The color temperature can go higher on overcast days. By sunset it's around 3000K. Professional photographers often carry a gray card in their camera bags to set custom white balances for shooting both indoors and outdoors.

At any rate, it's still a good idea to make printed color samples for any big job and at least proof them outdoors to see how they'll look in the sun. I've seen custom light boxes with different color temperature lamps rigged up to proof print samples under different lighting.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

No. The color temperature of sunlight changes throughout the day. At its brightest during midday it will be around 6500K. The color temperature can go higher on overcast days. By sunset it's around 3000K. Professional photographers often carry a gray card in their camera bags to set custom white balances for shooting both indoors and outdoors.

At any rate, it's still a good idea to make printed color samples for any big job and at least proof them outdoors to see how they'll look in the sun. I've seen custom light boxes with different color temperature lamps rigged up to proof print samples under different lighting.

6500k is called daylight when you buy bulbs. Look it up and tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

 

[Inks]

6500 is daylight. That is the standard for paint booths, don't know about printers.
Here cut and paste:
Color temperature is measured in Kelvin (K), and there are three common ranges: Warm Light (2700K-3000K); Cool White (3000K-5000K), and Daylight (5000K-6500K). Warm Light resembles the color of an incandescent; looking orange or yellow. ... Daylight ranges from Blue-White (5000K) to Bright Blue (6500K)[/QUOTE


Seems he is printing, where 5000K is used to view color, 6500K is on the blue side and will change the look of yellows. Color of substrate and lighting effect how the color looks. Just like when a sign is backlit the color of the LED's make a huge difference on how the color looks. 6500K may be used by sign makers producing backlit signage as it is the most common LED color being used, at least when I sold them. Maybe it has changed.

 

[Inks]

The Five Keys to Accurate Color Viewing
What do a photographer, commercial printer, and sign printer have in common? They all have a need to accurately communicate color. When they carry out this objective consistently and accurately they are providing a high level of value to their clients and increasing the efficiency of their business.

Reproducing color accurately is a complicated process, especially when different substrates, technologies, and production facilities are involved. To help ensure that accuracy is achieved, viewing comparisons across the supply chain should be made in viewing conditions that comply with the ISO 3664:2009 standard.

ISO 3664:2009 is the international color viewing standard for the graphic technology and photography industries. It is a set of specifications that enables lighting engineers and manufacturers to design, test, and certify their color viewing systems to the industry standards, and challenges them to enhance the performance of their products. There are five specific conditions to meet when designing an ISO 3664:2009 compliant viewing booth.

1. Color Quality
   D50 light is a daylight simulation that has a color temperature of 5000K. This representation of natural daylight is used to view prints, photographs, and other graphic arts applications. It should be noted that not all 5000K lamps are equal. To maintain compliance with the standard use only ISO 3664:2009 compliant lamps in your viewing booth.
2. Light Intensity
   Consistent light intensity is critical to consistent image rendition. The standard provides a target intensity designed to allow full tonal visibility of shadow detail without washing out highlights. Color decisions should be under light that is between 1750 and 2250 lux, with 2000 lux being optimum.
3. Evenness
   Even light intensity across an image assures correct interpretation of print/reproduction quality. Evenness is ensured by measuring illuminance at several evenly distributed points on the viewing surface. Illumination should be at least 1200 lux (60% of 2000) intensity at all points on the viewing surface.
4. Surround
   Surround color and reflectance affect color appearance. ISO 3664:2009 specifies Munsell neutral gray, to ensure that the surround and backing are neutral and matte. GTI Graphic Technology, Inc., the leading manufacturer of color viewing systems, uses Munsell N8/ neutral gray paint to meet this condition.
5. Geometry
   The presence of excessive glare is distracting and can hide reproduction detail. Therefore, the light source, image, and the observer’s eyes need to be positioned to minimize glare. The standard does not explicitly specify lighting geometry, but states it should be minimized.

 

[Bobby H]

6500k is called daylight when you buy bulbs. Look it up and tell me I'm wrong.

Looks like some others beat me to it.

 

[Pauly]

Okay wow, almost all of you are wrong.
Colour temps 5000k 6500k are not to be used for reference in printing.

D50 is the lighting condition / colour you should be looking at.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/color-matching/what-is-d50-for-graphic-arts-printing


5000k 6500k etc yes they're a light colour referenc, but buying globes to those standards will not make it D50 standard.
As there will still be colour missing from the light spectrum.

Those who have an Xriite i1pro and i1 profiler can actually measure the colours spectrum coming from your lights.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Looks like some others beat me to it.

And that would be where exactly? 6500k in bulbs is called daylight. Go ahead and show me where I am wrong. You said it, back it up.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Okay wow, almost all of you are wrong.
Colour temps 5000k 6500k are not to be used for reference in printing.

D50 is the lighting condition / colour you should be looking at.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/color-matching/what-is-d50-for-graphic-arts-printing


5000k 6500k etc yes they're a light colour referenc, but buying globes to those standards will not make it D50 standard.
As there will still be colour missing from the light spectrum.

Those who have an Xriite i1pro and i1 profiler can actually measure the colours spectrum coming from your lights.

My reply was within the context of the original post considering that they are probably an average sign shop. It doesn't sound like their goal is to dial in their prints to perfection with calibration tools, calibrated monitors and color corrected lights. I could be wrong but that sort of thing doesn't seem to be in the wheelhouse of the average sign operation, or needed.

 

[Pauly]

My reply was within the context of the original post considering that they are probably an average sign shop. It doesn't sound like their goal is to dial in their prints to perfection with calibration tools, calibrated monitors and color corrected lights. I could be wrong but that sort of thing doesn't seem to be in the wheelhouse of the average sign operation, or needed.

most signshops dont use any specific lighting. D50 lighting isn't cheap either unfortunately.
But it is recommended if you're doing anything regarding colour matching, or else you'll be like OP and get different colour matching results inside and outside.
The other way to colour match is with a spectro...
standard 5000k or 6500k or any lights in general don't product the full colour spectrum, so you'll always get variation from true sunlight and shop light.