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Your thoughts on unconventional yard sign production...

koz

New Member
Hi everyone, just looking for some opinions here on a somewhat odd question....

What are your thoughts on a print shop producing a large volume of yard signs without using a flatbed to print directly onto coro? What if they printed the images on an inexpensive, Oracal type adhesive vinyl, then mounted the adhesive to the coro then cut them down? I understand that the economies of scale are out of whack compared to using a UV flatbed, but that aside - do you think the adhesive mounted to coro would actually make for a better product than a direct UV printed yard sign? Curious to know your thoughts. Thanks!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Not making fun of you, but there is no comparison whatsoever in any regards.
 

PRS Bryan

Member
Do the math.

The wholesaler I use offers a finished product for about what I can buy materials for.

That does not include my time or wear and tear on my machines.

I have done one-off signs using the process you describe, as a favor for good customers but the amount I have to charge them to break even is 400% to 600% what a wholesaler can charge.
 

reQ

New Member
Don't waste your money & time. I found my wholesale printer for vinyl bag signs and flatbed printed coro signs. I pay pretty much same price for materials only on my end. So for the same money i am getting completed project, so i would be stupid making them myself.
 

ExecuPrintGS

New Member
We used to print on cheap vinyl and mount our coro as full 4'x8' sheets.
Its possible, and we did it for years, until we could afford the flatbed. second to none (minus it being a piece of junk) buying a flatbed was the best investment the boss here has ever made. Cut down production time (overtime) and freed me up to do a lot more with that time. Also the cost savings allowed us to be a lot more competitive in our area. If you cant flatbed them in house, sub it out, make your $ and let someone else do the work.
Printing and mounting to me is a waste of time and money.
 

shoresigns

New Member
To answer your question on quality, vinyl prints mounted on coro have always looked way better than flatbed prints in my experience. I'm sure some flatbed printers are better than others but flatbed-printed signs I see around here have terrible print quality.
 

eahicks

Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
Hi everyone, just looking for some opinions here on a somewhat odd question....

What are your thoughts on a print shop producing a large volume of yard signs without using a flatbed to print directly onto coro? What if they printed the images on an inexpensive, Oracal type adhesive vinyl, then mounted the adhesive to the coro then cut them down? I understand that the economies of scale are out of whack compared to using a UV flatbed, but that aside - do you think the adhesive mounted to coro would actually make for a better product than a direct UV printed yard sign? Curious to know your thoughts. Thanks!


Define large volume. We easily knock out anywhere up to 50 signs in a couple hours by printing and mounting on to coro sheets, then cutting down. And we make plenty of money doing so. More than that, though, we will sub out for screen printing. Just takes too much time when you get into the 100s.
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
We use three methods.
1. direct print = cost A
2. print to decal then apply to coro = cost B
3. send out for screen print

we many customers who have seen the quality difference and insist only decal prints to coro. Usually not more than 10 at a time though. Same with decal prints to pvc.
 
We sub out digital printed yard signs in quantities of 10 or more, and screen printed yard signs whenever necessary. For quantities of less than 10, we print and mount all day, everyday. You just have to charge a justifiable amount to actually make money doing so. However, would I ever even consider just printing and mounting over subbing out? No. It is just not profitable to do larger runs this way.
 

T_K

New Member
At the places I've worked, we've never had a flatbed, and didn't have the volume to outsource. Doing 10-20 signs of printed vinyl on coro is no big deal, unless you're slammed with work.
 

TimToad

Active Member
To answer your question on quality, vinyl prints mounted on coro have always looked way better than flatbed prints in my experience. I'm sure some flatbed printers are better than others but flatbed-printed signs I see around here have terrible print quality.

My bias aside thanks to our flatbed, but I disagree. What I think looks worse is the stuff printed on low grade material while running it at at fastest possible speed to lessen the time and ink costs in order to compete with folks like us.

Even at $100 per roll for low grade vinyl, you still have higher ink costs even if using after market ink and then there is the labor to mount them all. We can gang up 8 to a sheet and walk away until its done.

We can run our flatbed for months every day on the same 1 liter pouches of ink and not have all that waste to contend with. People need to add in the cost of garbage pickup if you are pumping out a high volume of printed media work.

Our flatbed as old and soon to be obsolete (Gerber IONx Solara) as it is, does a great job on coro, sintra, magnetic and even DiBond when printed at the higher settings.
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
My .02, I think it's fine to do but will never compete volume wise with a flat bed.

The cheapest we can do a 4x8 is Unlaminated with Arlon 510 and 2 pass on our 360. Cost is roughly $13.12 per side for materials / ink and it takes 5mins on a mounter so another $5 per panel per side in labor. We are at $18 per side when a Flatbed would be around $6.

It also takes 5mins to load the printer, about 7mins of printing. A Flatbed depending on settings is done in about 5-7 mins total.

Just food for thought on your decision.
 

ams

New Member
Don't do it. It takes way too much labor and when you get an order for 100 double sided, do you know how long that will take to print and apply? Nearly a week, you would be so backed up, not to mention errors/reprinting. But the cost of materials is higher. You would get backed up and start telling people you are 3 weeks behind.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Don't do it. It takes way too much labor and when you get an order for 100 double sided, do you know how long that will take to print and apply? Nearly a week, you would be so backed up, not to mention errors/reprinting. But the cost of materials is higher. You would get backed up and start telling people you are 3 weeks behind.

Not too much of a back up if you work smart.
We do sets of 50 double sided 20"x12" on 3mil coroplast every month or two.
16 copies will gang on a single sheet of 4x8 coro.
We print the first side with the 0 spacing between the images using a .5pt white outline around each copy for cut marks.
Mount the print using our manual hand cranked laminator - flip it over and mount a second set of 16 prints on the back - again 0 spacing between images but no white outline.
With no spacing between images we only have to make single long cuts to separate them quickly using the 1pt white outline guides on the front side. Registration between front and back can be off a bit and still not show with no cut lines on the back. (These are popped into frames so the edges don't matter anyway).
We only have to do three of these to get 48 double sided prints mounted n cut in an hour or so (not including the printing time) with 1 or 2 guys - depending on who shows up for work.
Most times we have to add an additional 100 count 24x16 single sided poster (on coro) for the same promo. Takes more material (11 full 4x8s) but they go really fast without having to deal with double sided registration.
If I could afford a flatbed I'm not sure I would get one with the nearest techs a plane ride away in Hawaii.
I can still make money on short turn around projects with my roll to roll if I need to.

wayne k
guam usa
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Don't do it. It takes way too much labor and when you get an order for 100 double sided, do you know how long that will take to print and apply? Nearly a week, you would be so backed up, not to mention errors/reprinting. But the cost of materials is higher. You would get backed up and start telling people you are 3 weeks behind.

Not too much of a back up if you work smart.
We do sets of 50 double sided 20"x12" on 3mil coroplast every month or two.
16 copies will gang on a single sheet of 4x8 coro.
We print the first side with the 0 spacing between the images using a .5pt white outline around each copy for cut marks.
Mount the print using our manual hand cranked laminator - flip it over and mount a second set of 16 prints on the back - again 0 spacing between images but no white outline.
With no spacing between images we only have to make single long cuts to separate them quickly using the 1pt white outline guides on the front side. Registration between front and back can be off a bit and still not show with no cut lines on the back. (These are popped into frames so the edges don't matter anyway).
We only have to do three of these to get 48 double sided prints mounted n cut in an hour or so (not including the printing time) with 1 or 2 guys - depending on who shows up for work.
Most times we have to add an additional 100 count 24x16 single sided poster (on coro) for the same promo. Takes more material (11 full 4x8s) but they go really fast without having to deal with double sided registration.
If I could afford a flatbed I'm not sure I would get one with the nearest techs a plane ride away in Hawaii.
I can still make money on short turn around projects with my roll to roll if I need to.

wayne k
guam usa


No doubt about it, you can make money applying vinyl prints to Cor-X, but when the OP compares it to outrunning a flatbed..... then one needs to understand or realize the tools one is working with to what capacity they can perform.

As for ams way..... I can't imagine 100 18" x 24" double-sided signs taking a week to produce. That is insane. Just about any printer will print those in a day or less. Mounting them with a Big Squeegee [plug] or a laminator should have them all mounted within a few hours and cutting 11 sheets down, maybe an hour or two. There he goes again with all those errors and things going wrong. How does anyone stay in business, when each and every job goes wrong as he's been telling us.

The thing to remember is simple. Even on the slowest of flatbeds, you have the cost of the substrate, much less cost of inks, cut time and you're done. 100 signs are completed within 5 to 6 hours in our shop. Some can have them finished in 2 or 3 hours, depending on their speed.
The vinyl applique method is cost of vinyl, regardless how cheap it is, lotsa monkey time applying, wrestling with some of them, cutting them out and the much higher cost of the inks. You'll probably have 2 days in it, plus all of your monkey time spent on cheap signs, instead of something worth while.

Why spend hours/days on producing itty-bitty signs worth about $5 or so, when you could be focusing on larger signs and in the same timeframe, producing far better results..... and money ??
 

fresh

New Member
We use three methods.
1. direct print = cost A
2. print to decal then apply to coro = cost B
3. send out for screen print

we many customers who have seen the quality difference and insist only decal prints to coro. Usually not more than 10 at a time though. Same with decal prints to pvc.

same here.

when there are tons of copy changes, we usually just print in house though. the process of me setting up 25+ files, uploading them all, etc is just too time consuming. We do a fair amount of golf tournament signs, and doing them in house allows us to do some last minute signs. If I outsourced them all, they either would look different or just not get done.

But other than that, we outsource mostly depending on our work flow. If its busy, send it out. If its slow, we do it in house.
 

rossmosh

New Member
Color me stupid but why not setup a minimum charge for these signs?

Art/Setup Charge = X
Cost per 4x8 sheet as per your supplier = Y
Shipping = Z

X + 2Y + Z = Minimum for Coroplast Signs

If it's a 24hr rush and you need to print and apply the graphic, charge them the full boat pricing.
 

gabagoo

New Member
It all depends on the amount they are looking for. 10 -20 pieces 18 x 24 I will definately do in house, printing on vinyl and apply to a full sheet.

Outsourced flatbed trade work always leaves me wondering if I will get paid, as most wholesalers run low res fast output.
 

Bly

New Member
We have a regular order of 80 a month.
We print on cheap vinyl with latex, mount, trim and send to 10 different locations in about half a day.
They are at least double the price what flatbed would be but the client likes our fast turnaround and reliable delivery.
We would never get them out in time if we outsourced them and the quality is excellent, the colours really pop.

Having said that I'm looking at getting a flatbed.
 

rossmosh

New Member
It all depends on the amount they are looking for. 10 -20 pieces 18 x 24 I will definately do in house, printing on vinyl and apply to a full sheet.

Outsourced flatbed trade work always leaves me wondering if I will get paid, as most wholesalers run low res fast output.

Invest a few bucks and get a sample run from the person you're outsourcing to. Show the customer what it will look like if you buy it from them vs do it yourself. Let them make the decision.
 
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