Zund Or Oce Procut

[David Raymer]

Just responding to an old post as only new to the forum. As an Aristo agent for Australia, I'm curious to see if an Aristo was considered as an option when the decision was reduced to Zund or Oce. I understand that Aristo hasn't really been receiving much advertising and could be considered a bit of an "unknown" in comparison, but the Aristo company has actually been around for over 150 years and the machines are designed and built in Germany.
I guess this could be considered as a little bit of market research to see what made you consider the machines you looked at and if Aristo was even in the running.

As we are also agents for Summa cutters, it is interesting that the F-Series was also commented upon as the Summa brand would be more known in the digital print industry through the vinyl cutters (it is hard to keep one on the showroom floor as they keep getting sold due to the high demand for them), but I am yet to come across a site here in Australia where an F-Series has been installed. They certainly appear to be a good machine with all the options, but I'm interested to see where they would fit into the Australian market. I haven't been here at Celmac Digital for long and only new to the Summa range so don't yet know enough about them to comfortably offer them as an option, but I'm happy to hear back from anyone with one to find out their honest opinion of them.

 

[Bly]

Yeah I spoke to Celmac about Aristos.
There was a German bloke out here from Aristo who Wayne brought in to talk about them.
While they do seem good solid machines I was a bit concerned about the software and ease of use.
We have been more than happy in that regard with our Procut.

 

[robibilic]

Seeing as we own a iEcho and they are very responsive and have no issues with their level of service thus far I can say that this assumption you have is faulty. The fact that the iEcho is less than half the price of the similarly equipped Zund or Esko leaves the ability to buy the whole machine over again if there is critical failure paired with the fact that nearly every component on the iEcho is user serviceable and the parts are readily available upon breakdown it seems to be a good choice for anyone who is willing to get their hands dirty.

So do you own a Zund or Esko? Do you have first hand knowledge of their service. I know 2 shops that were burned by Zunds exit of the printing market and I know one shop with a Esko that has replaced the same cutting head 3 times due to a failure that Esko can't find.

Having run a Gerber in the past and demoing both the Zund and Esko options I can say that iEcho is a very competitive option and the only short coming is the software and set up process vs the other 2. Caldera has a driver for the iEcho now and Onyx is coming out with one soon.

To go back to Bly, I believe the Oce would be the best choice for you as after talking with our Oce rep it seems as if you would get dual support for the machine through Canon and Zund.

Seeing as we own a iEcho and they are very responsive and have no issues with their level of service thus far I can say that this assumption you have is faulty. The fact that the iEcho is less than half the price of the similarly equipped Zund or Esko leaves the ability to buy the whole machine over again if there is critical failure paired with the fact that nearly every component on the iEcho is user serviceable and the parts are readily available upon breakdown it seems to be a good choice for anyone who is willing to get their hands dirty.

So do you own a Zund or Esko? Do you have first hand knowledge of their service. I know 2 shops that were burned by Zunds exit of the printing market and I know one shop with a Esko that has replaced the same cutting head 3 times due to a failure that Esko can't find.

Having run a Gerber in the past and demoing both the Zund and Esko options I can say that iEcho is a very competitive option and the only short coming is the software and set up process vs the other 2. Caldera has a driver for the iEcho now and Onyx is coming out with one soon.

To go back to Bly, I believe the Oce would be the best choice for you as after talking with our Oce rep it seems as if you would get dual support for the machine through Canon and Zund.

I think I will buy the Iecho TK3S 2135. The problem is I can't decide which router is the best option for me. They have three option:
1. Most expensive german router 1KW
2. Router 350W made in Japan
3. Router 1.5KW made in China.

Thx

Robert

 

[ChrisN]

I think I will buy the Iecho TK3S 2135. The problem is I can't decide which router is the best option for me. They have three option:
1. Most expensive german router 1KW
2. Router 350W made in Japan
3. Router 1.5KW made in China.

Thx

Robert

I wouldn't consider the 350w option unless you're only doing very light routing. For example, cutting 10mm Alumilite (2 passes, 120"/min, 40k RPM) loaded my 1kw spindle over 30%. That's at or over the limit of the 350w option.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

The TK3 is much better than our BK3. The 350w router isn't that bad, it's what we have and it cuts fine for most materials. It's just very slow... more power means more speeds and cleaner cutting.

The China router is garbage, the German one is very good. Did they tell you they have a 4KW router coming out? If not I'd ask them and wait if you are set on iEcho. The truth of the matter is I would avoid iEcho.

 

[robibilic]

I will get TK3 with the 350W router. It is the first CNC for my shop. I hope it is a great addition to my Mimaki JFX500.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I will get TK3 with the 350W router. It is the first CNC for my shop. I hope it is a great addition to my Mimaki JFX500.

How much more is the German router... it would be a better tool to start with.

Also make sure you are ready for he myriad of support issues and breakdowns that may occur. I have been fighting with them since February to fix our machine, 1 of the 3 cutting head positions is not working due to a faulty cable and they keep giving us the run around.

It was a great first machine for us, and runs really well currently minus the lack of the 3rd head we paid $15,000 for, but if your business takes off like ours after putting the machine in.... all those little issues become huge headaches, inefficiencies, loss of income, and angry clients.

 

[robibilic]

here is the info:

"
1. Most expensive 1KW made in Germany
1kw router with the auto changing function, the max RPM is 60000, it can be perfect for the cutting, engraving or chamfering, and fillet. End user price is $26000. The delivery time is longer more than 2 months now. This model occupied 20% in our marketing, available from Oct of last year.

Better for the acrylic/MDF less than 50mm thickness.

2. 350W router made in Japan
Japan Spindle, 350W, max RPM is 60000, comparing 1kw, the power is weak, so it's better for the material less than 20mm thickness. Not available for the auto changing tool function. The end user price is $8500, it occupied 70% in our marketing. The delivery time is 30days,

3. 1.5KW router made in China.
Chinese spindle, Max RPM is 24000, it is economical, but noisy, the cutting speed is slow. The end user price is $4500, occupied in our marketing 10%, seldom customer chose it, and the delivery time is 2 months."

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Honestly if you have the budget the German Penske router is much better with the tool change and auto depth adjustment... it will save you time and headaches.

 

[robibilic]

UPDATE:

We had scheduled delivery an for 28t Jun. It is still not installed. It should be installed by the end of this month (October). A joke about the time.

 

[Robert Gruner]

LOL...so many options...I've been servicing this industry for 40+ years...I have limited experience with Wild, Colex, Aristo, Koingsberg/Esko, Zund, and Summa...ALL fine cutters...TODAY...forget YESTERDAY...for Price and Performance...my money's on the Summa F1612...63" throat, 47" depth (with the addition of a very inexpensive extension table) capable of cutting rigid 4'x8' or 5'x10' board or flexible media up to 63" wide, conveyor system, camera system, drag module, two (2) tangential modules, and a 1KW, 50K RPM Router...all for around $85K is a real deal.

Look at ALL these cutters at SGIA in Las Vegas Oct 18-20 (next week)...ask for benchmark cuts...perform due diligence...buy the Summa...enjoy!