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HP L25500 & Onyx x10 problems

RobbyMac

New Member
Good News! (I hope).
According to our operator and his discussions with Onyx, Onyx has had more reports of mirroring and has found 'discrepencies' in the driver for the hp. They have supplied us with an 'old' driver that apparently is more stable. We have not yet installed/tested it but I'll keep ya posted.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
Great news. We have run about 10 jobs through without any mirroring using this older driver. Prior to this, we were lucky to get 3 jobs through without one of them mirroring. We are actually producing with this machine as we ease it into our workflow.

We have currently only been testing/using this profile: 3M IJ180C-10

Sorry for so many posts, but I will be out of the office tomorrow until monday, and didn't want to leave anyone hanging in case they were monitoring this thread.

To recap; if you get mirroring problems with Onyx x10 and the L25500, it is likely caused by an updated driver problem. Revert back to the following driver: HP_L25500_10.0.1.40_NoMedia.PrnInst

We will begin using other profiles today.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
Well I'm about done with this POS.
Everything has to be rasterized prior to ripping.
Today I go to run a top fuel dragster wrap, 120" into it it just stops printing with no error message other than "Restart the printer and try again. If problem persists, call technical support".
Yeah... I want to blow through 10 ft of vinyl and ink several more times with absolutely ZERO INDICATION as to what went wrong.
We really shouldve went with the Epson. this machine has been nothing but a time and money waster for us.
 

BadAss

New Member
I had Onyx (by merchants recomendation) with or new L25500 for 2 weeks. I thought it was complete crap all the work you have to go through to get to a print. Called them and they switched me over to Flexi 10 and it has been working flawlessly every since.M*
 

MachServTech

New Member
Well I'm about done with this POS.
Everything has to be rasterized prior to ripping.
Today I go to run a top fuel dragster wrap, 120" into it it just stops printing with no error message other than "Restart the printer and try again. If problem persists, call technical support".
Yeah... I want to blow through 10 ft of vinyl and ink several more times with absolutely ZERO INDICATION as to what went wrong.
We really shouldve went with the Epson. this machine has been nothing but a time and money waster for us.

You said yourself that it was a RIP issue, so now your machine is crap too? Did you try a different RIP?
 

RobbyMac

New Member
We have to rasterize because of the rip.
The more recent errors have something to do with the take up reel. If we use the plastic bar/weight, it seems to be causing issues with the take up reel. Can't get it tight enough to a core, so the take up reel spins but the core sits idle... after so many seconds, apparently the take up systems detects a problem, and aborts the print.
Now we're running it without the bar, and it still sets off the eye detector, to take up the slack. This seems to be working for the moment.

As I've stated previously, we've had a few printers and rips... vutek2360 with colorburst, mimaki jv3 with rasterlink, etc... We're not extacly 'green' when it comes to printing wraps, decals and banners. This rip/printer combo has alot of friggin hoops to jump through to produce any profit. I guess if all you were doing was printing enlarged rectangular photos it'd be great.

I gather caldera is a decent rip, however I'm not ready to tackle intermingling it with our microsoft small business network... I'll look into flexi.

edit: connected via network. 1g, cat 6
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
I use both the L25500 and Onyx X10. I have not experienced either of the issues you have experienced, I always keep my files in vector/layered format but rip server seems to mess up occasionally if used by itself.

Do you use layout tool or preflight before printing or just rip server?
 

RobbyMac

New Member
The printer stopping we believe was an issue with the take up system. I can't blame the rip for that.
We seem to run into issues with the negative imaging (black = white, whites = black) almost always when we have multiple layers in our files. We use finecut, so we have at least a cut layer and a print layer in most files we print day to day. This issue happens in both corel x3 and illustrator cs3. Even when printing is turned off for the cut layer... the guys say we can delete the cut layer, merge all layers into one as needed and get it to print without the 'negative image' issue occurring.
However, its a crapshoot still because it seems vector work can also wind up getting mirrored (no rhyme or reason found for it yet). The reverting to an older printer driver mentioned earlier seems to have helped, but not completely eliminated this problem.
Almost always the guys print directly from the design app to the rip, then take it into preflight to double check sizing, tweak colors, etc...
These guys are working mostly on day to day repeat stuff. Various logos, vehicle logo sets, etc... I tend to work on large wraps (hence my frustration on the car wrap the other day).
I've not gotten confident enough to panel out a job in layout tool. I have played with it, and i will be working on a small inhouse job soon. Even then, I don't trust it, and each side of the trailer will be a raster image.
The only way we have been able to get it to print consistently, is to rsterize the art prior to printing. The quickest way of handling this is to export, and then open it directly in the rip (taking it to preflight automatically). But the guys sometimes rasterize and then print from the design app they are using.
Keep in mind, that while many of the files we use can have alot of lens effects and whatnot, most day to day runs are pretty standard vector files with solid fills, or simple gradients. I would understand if the trouble files contained alot of special effects.. but from experience iwht our other systems, we tend to rasterize those types of files beforehand anyways.
The latest anomoly, was a series of pdf files supplied to us for a museum, which contained alot of text. We had 100 of these things, each one different text, consisting of a small logo up top, and standard times new roman at 20pt or so, ranging from 1 to 4 paragraphs of text. The friggin thing would print about 3 lines of text, and then the rest of it, any open letters would have solid fills (O, P, A, R, etc) would all have their centers filled black. The only thing we could figure from tests, was if too much text appeared in the page, it would crap out like that. And this is what I mean by having to jump through hoops and figure what the heck is going on. We had 100 different signs, and we're supposed to spend the better half of a day trying to figure out why it's not printing simple pdf text stuff? After screwing with it for about 3 hours, they figured it was faster to rasterize all of them and print instead.
I am currently researching other rips, but we just laid down some cash for this printer, workstation, and a really difficult rip. It's not like we can afford to go out and buy 3 other RIPS to 'play' with.
There is also some onyx or hp local event upcoming that we plan on attending (I don't know the details yet, just heard it in passing late last week by our manager).
 

MachServTech

New Member
The printer stopping we believe was an issue with the take up system. I can't blame the rip for that.

I just had my take-up fail. I called HP and spoke with a support tech that said this is an issue they are working on resolving through a possible retrofit.

In the mean time I ordered a new takeup:
HP Designjet L25500 60in Printer Spindle Assy.
CQ155A $240.00
Includes the sensors, tray, and spindles.


In my opinion this is the weakest design point on the machine, I hope they come up with a resolution.

The upside is that I can have the work spool in the floor without sticking together :wink: until I can get the takeup in.

I have Flexi as well, it runs the L25500 with no problems.
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
I have a great take up system for the latex but its more then the HP version but is way better then theirs.
 

marcsitkin

New Member
We are still waiting for that upgrade as well. Our workaround has been to limit the amount of material taken up to 25 yards or so on the heavy canvas we run.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
Something else to look forward to I guess :(
Ours was crapping out about 10 ft in. But its because the 'plugs' aren't gripping the take up core well enough, so the spool spins, but the core just sits there. Once we removed their plastic modular 'weight bar', it works ok. At least with vinyl.
I'd almost rather have it spill onto the floor than abort a print alltogether when theres a take-up malfunction, but to each his/her own.
Thinking about applying grip tape to the core plugs in hopes it grips better, but if others are having issues with their take-up system then maybe its best to keep doing what we're doing and keep the weight down as much as possible.

Sometime this week I'm going to run it through the wringer, and put prints/corresponding files together for the hp conference which I found out is not local, but in Vegas. Sadly I will not be attending :(
 

RobbyMac

New Member
Try rubber bands on the core "plugs"

Works Awesome thanks!

Printed a buttload of test files... right out of the gate had problems with negative imaging... recorded everything, saved originals, rip files, etc... Still more to test and record, but I am now risking a small tag trailer wrap. All raster so I feel a little easy about it.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
Succesfully printed the tag trailer, but it was mnually paneled/tiled. One hting at a time, I don't want to risk the layout tool for tiling just yet.

This week we printed a successful funnycar wrap. getting some banding, but the heads are near the end of their lifespan, so we will tinker when we replace. If thats any indication of how little we are producing with this machine... we've had it running since 1st week in january and we havent replaced heads yet.

Cd created with all information about 4 test files we attempted to run. Computer specs, synopsis/results notes, original design/print files, rip files, and photos of results. My guy says the HP booth is really busy, but he's going to try to discuss the issues further with them. I hope somethign happens there, because I'm going to start getting really vocal soon.

Rubber bands on the core plugs help a ton. thanks again for that idea. Now I fear putting too much weight on it (since others have mentioned the take up system fails), so I limit the take up cores to around 500" or so. The core doen't wrap very tight, so our laminator guru complains alot that it can track off. keeping our cores smaller helps him out. In fairness, our mimaki cores don't take up too tight either.

Ran into a small issue with heat not getting to the very outter 1" edge on 60" (right side facing machine). Nt sure how to adjust heaters, we just put our radiant heater/dryer at an angle so it would catch that edge. worked like a charm, but added even more heat to the room.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
The test session and cd I burnt turned out to be fruitful. Our owner discussed the issues with HP and Onyx at the vegas convention. he gave the cd I made (with print, rip, photos, etc) to Onyx, and I just got a call back from them.

There is an issue with using OEM halftoning in the media profiles which is causing the negative imaging issues. He advises to use stochastic or something other than oem dot pattern. The issue is supposedly due to be resolved in an upcoming patch 10.1

I have not tested this yet, literally just got off the phone with them.
 

MachServTech

New Member
Ran into a small issue with heat not getting to the very outter 1" edge on 60" (right side facing machine). Nt sure how to adjust heaters, we just put our radiant heater/dryer at an angle so it would catch that edge. worked like a charm, but added even more heat to the room.

Ok, cure issues on this machine have been because I used the wrong profile for the material, or I selected a speed that the profile was not built for.
So the result is too much ink for the speed/heat ratio.
This usually can be fixed by right click the job in the cue and adjusting the "printer settings" (Onyx 10) increasing the heat slightly sometimes helps.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
I started playing around with media settings earlier this week. Previously we hadn't done much with these profiles because we couldn't get the negative and mirrored problems 'fixed'.
But now that we are closer to getting it to print correct artwork, we are beginning to setup profiles.

Have you gotten any backlit film to run decent? We did a test yesterday (on majic sb-7 or something), but the high heat required (as specd in the manufacturer supplied profile) seems to have warped the film.
The mimaki print lays flat, but the hp print is all wobbly.
 
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