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3 d printing is anybody doing it and how are u making money

Dukenukem117

New Member
we recently bought a damaged stratsys 1200 es. on ebay
we buy everything damaged or not working. (factory tech says it can't be repaired are the bet deals)

12 x 10 x 10 build, big enough to be useful.

should be printing soon

not sure how we will use it. always wanted one
for now it will be "a solution in search of a problem" for us, we're not quite ready to print business card calling ourselves a. 3d printing service sompany, just yet

The problem with Stratasys is that replacement parts are SOOOOOO expensive. We started with a used 768 thinking the same thing, but then the extruder clogged. For any modern printer, this is a $25 part. For Stratasys this is a $4000 part. Even buying from aftermarket copy-cats, it was a $1000 part. Then we had electronics issues, and tried buying a $200 replacement hard drive. Keep in mind this is a 5400 RPM IDE HDD that is probably $5 in material. But that didn't fix it either so we were looking at replacing the chipset (damn near impossible). In the end, I probably spent as much money trying to fix the damn thing as I did buying it, nevermind all the time.

Funny enough, we then found a used 1200 on Ebay but noticed the guy was local. So I got in touch to see it in person and it turns out the guy use to be the regional sales manager for Stratasys and told us all kinds of dirt on how insane their markups are. Now he's a reseller for Markforge and when he took out some of the parts it made, we were just in disbelief at how good the quality was. This is from a printer the size of a large microwave, not a fridge. It uses a fraction of the power, generates a fraction of the heat, doesn't create fumes because its carbon nylon and not ABS, and is reasonably affordable to repair. There is simply no reason to go with Stratasys for FDM in my book.

If you haven't looked into it, get a chip-rewriter so that you can hack the cartridges to refill them with cheap generic filament. $260 for a kg of ABS is just criminal.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
But if you are starting from scratch, it's an extremely long learning process and not one that I would recommend starting unless you already have a passion for tinkering (in which case you probably already have a printer).

It all depends on how long learning a process can be. One thing that I would suggest is a strong desire, willingness to tinker. That tends to open up the door much more in a couple of different fronts.

Today I can get comparable parts from my $1000 Dremels and far superior parts from my Markforge. If you want plug-and-play, Markforge is the only company I would recommend. But since their material is so expensive, its almost certainly too expensive for production (except for small brackets and odd parts).

The one bad thing about the "turnkey" machines is that more often then not, they require you to use consumables that they approve of. This goes even for the Dremel (last time I looked about a year ago anyway).

Sometimes this even means specific software used as well.

If you want to print with dirt cheap generic material, you will have to learn a lot about servicing the machine and learning how to dial in the settings and troubleshoot.

This instance would be one of the few times that I would suggest one of the more open hardware options. Now, this would require that one is willing and able to tinker, but this also provides the most freedom. Usually the parts are more freely available. I don't want to say generic, because sometimes that gives the notion of being inferior, but they certainly aren't proprietary parts and one can actually improve the quality of parts (I did this with the extruders on mine).

But this also means that they usually accept input from other software compared to their own (or software from "approved" vendors). I'm able to use Blender either directly or stl files brought into Slic3r for even more control with the resulting g-code. They also tend to cooperate on more computer platforms for direct control (mine even came with a deb file (which can be loaded on a non deb system (or deb package manager I should say) easily enough)).
 

Dukenukem117

New Member
It all depends on how long learning a process can be. One thing that I would suggest is a strong desire, willingness to tinker. That tends to open up the door much more in a couple of different fronts.

I encourage everyone to tinker the way doctors encourage everyone to exercise. But if the goal is to get monetary value from the skills/equipment, then the time horizon is over a year. If you have mechanical engineering knowledge, then at least you know what you want to make. But if you are trying to learn 3D modeling, 3D printing, and mechanical engineering all at once, you're probably going to take several years unless you do it full time.

The one bad thing about the "turnkey" machines is that more often then not, they require you to use consumables that they approve of. This goes even for the Dremel (last time I looked about a year ago anyway).

Sometimes this even means specific software used as well.

That's basically Markforge. Affordable machines as far as industrial printer go. Extremely reliable, high quality, and simple to use. The fiber reinforcement is unique and produces incredibly strong parts that can sometimes replace CNC metal. Expensive filament ($190/kg for Onyx), compared to $60-110 for other brands of carbon nylon. Onyx is very refined if you at look at it up close, so the unique formulation is actually what locks the printer to the material, and not some arbitrary BS like RFID chips. The settings are perfectly calibrated for Onyx, and I have never ever had to pre-dry Onyx. It's always ready to go out-of-the-box. But this is still better than Stratasys charging $260 for a kg of MG94 ABS that can be bought for $50 or so, while providing slightly better characteristics than generic $20 ABS. So you do get unique benefits with the Markforge. But if you dont need parts that precise, you can get by with a Dremel.

The Dremel is about $60-70/kg for their repackaged RFID-chipped materials. The 3D45 is their first printer (I believe) that lets you use any material you want, but you need to do a lot of tinkering with the settings and rig up an external feed as the internal spool mount doesn't fit standard spools. It's an approachable option if you are willing to spend at least a month learning how to service a 3D printer. I avoided consumer grade printers for a long time because people I know seem to spend more time fixing them than printing, but I've got over 2000 hours on my two Dremels over the last few months and its mostly reliable now. But there was a learning curve even though I thought I knew this stuff decently well going in.

This instance would be one of the few times that I would suggest one of the more open hardware options. Now, this would require that one is willing and able to tinker, but this also provides the most freedom. Usually the parts are more freely available. I don't want to say generic, because sometimes that gives the notion of being inferior, but they certainly aren't proprietary parts and one can actually improve the quality of parts (I did this with the extruders on mine).

But this also means that they usually accept input from other software compared to their own (or software from "approved" vendors). I'm able to use Blender either directly or stl files brought into Slic3r for even more control with the resulting g-code. They also tend to cooperate on more computer platforms for direct control (mine even came with a deb file (which can be loaded on a non deb system (or deb package manager I should say) easily enough)).

I got the Dremel for its build quality and warranty, and I use PrusaSlicer for slicing. Its got some weird firmware quirks, but its just 'open enough' for me without being completely DIY. Since I might be setting up a print farm with many printers and I will need to train people to use them, I don't want a mish-mash of printers with different quirks.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I got the Dremel for its build quality and warranty, and I use PrusaSlicer for slicing. Its got some weird firmware quirks, but its just 'open enough' for me without being completely DIY. Since I might be setting up a print farm with many printers and I will need to train people to use them, I don't want a mish-mash of printers with different quirks.

PrusaSlicer is a fork of Slic3r (along with Slic3r Prusa Edition). I don't know if the Prusa specific settings in Prusa Edition made it in to PrusaSlicer (although the name would indicate as such), but may want to try Slic3r to see if that helps with the firmware quirks on the machine side of things. Things may or may not have been taken out (or adjusted) that could affect experience. There could have been changes that make it in to those other editions that would affect other machines. Or it could just be a different naming schema to be different. Sometimes it's hard to tell.
 

Dukenukem117

New Member
The quirk is even in Dremel's own branded CURA slicer. So I think its in the hardware. The most annoying one is that the bed temp doesn't transfer correctly and you have to pause the print during heat-up and reset it on the printer. Otherwise it always sets it to 30C, which is basically no heating.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
The quirk is even in Dremel's own branded CURA slicer. So I think its in the hardware. The most annoying one is that the bed temp doesn't transfer correctly and you have to pause the print during heat-up and reset it on the printer. Otherwise it always sets it to 30C, which is basically no heating.

Yea, that does sound like a hardware quirk.

This is what the build quality of the markforge is capable of, even without reinforcing.

https://imgur.com/a/3sPjDUI

Nice.

Typically what I do is I do the print, then create a mold from that and then use different material to suite my needs poured into that mold. So I'm very rarely using the original print.
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
This is what the build quality of the markforge is capable of, even without reinforcing.

https://imgur.com/a/3sPjDUI

Absolutely gorgeous work...

I think your application is a "poster child" for the best use of 3D printing: design, iterate, repeat.

I was a plastic injection moldmaker (tool & die) and started my career back in the early 80s where everything was still done by hand in most small shops (CNC was terribly cost prohibitive back then, and CAM software was virtually non-existent).

What you're accomplishing in a matter of hours, literally took months back then. Complicated parting lines on your matched mold sets were an absolute nightmare and often required many hours of hand fitting to get a functional part.


JB
 
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Dukenukem117

New Member
Thanks!

I think its a poster child for where the technology is today for the prosumer level. I don't know how much more home printers will advance since they seem to have hit rock bottom on build cost. But on the industrial cutting edge, I'm still blown away at what is being done. It looks like magic to me sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mhUm6NzqE

And I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but its a challenge to balance learning/buying new tools and mastering the ones you have and actually putting them to work. Especially in the design field, where theres a hot new CAD program seemingly ever other year that is clearly better at this or that. It's exhausting trying to stay on top of everything, but nobody wants to miss out on opportunities either - or worse: be left behind.
 
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James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
And I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but its a challenge to balance learning/buying new tools and mastering the ones you have and actually putting them to work. Especially in the design field, where theres a hot new CAD program seemingly ever other year that is clearly better at this or that. It's exhausting trying to stay on top of everything, but nobody wants to miss out on opportunities either - or worse: be left behind.

No kidding!

That's where the importance and value of a public makerspace is best realized. The technology is easily democratized, quickly amortized and then utilized to its fullest. If an when a maker ever settles into a stable product line, their business revenues can (or should) be able to sustain them from there.


JB
 
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