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3D Printed Dimensional Letters

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Anyone else printing dimensional letters and signage? Wondering what kind of success you are having. One interesting fact we are noticing is is the final material cost. The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year) Compare that to a Gemini 7" formed letter at 3/4" depth for $14.71 cost which has a retail price of $46.70.
 

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Owen Signcraft

New Member
Have to be careful what filament you use, some don't like to get too warm, like PLA. It'll warp in the Texas sun. Also has to be structurally sound to take a screw like that. What kind of filament was this?
This is a matte PLA test for indoor letters. The bosses are for pin-mounts, not screws. For outdoors we understand that an ASA or ABS should be used for both temperature swings and UV stability. Haven't tested those yet but looking forward to it. We are also trying some tactile signage options (attached). Looks promising so far. Especially for braille.
 

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JBurton

Signtologist
Textured surface would likely be non compliant, but you can get around it by purchasing ada compliant materials for the 'panels', as printing that area is the most time consuming part anyways.
The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year)
So a 7" letter only has the cost figured in, not your overhead. Not that their is a great deal of overhead with a 3d printer, but look at it this way. You can sell a 7" letter for $46.70 (just assuming you will shoot for and stop at gemini's suggested retail) So $46.70 - 4.50 for materials + 1.25 for maintenance. Let's consider a small shop rent and utilities at a combined 1,000/month, with 5/8 hour days. I'm assuming a 7" letter took about 2 hours to print, and let's just say your demand for 7" letters is banging, nothing but. So you have 1 machine, knocking out 4 a day, 20 a week, or 80 a month. At 80 a month, you'll bring in $3,736. That's great! It'll cover our theoretical rent and utilities, only 360 in materials and 100 in machine cost. But now you're left with $2,276 to pay yourself. For a month. So that'll cover a low cost employee to setup the machines. I'd think to hit a volume where you'd be bringing in enough to cover a sales guy, a part time accountant, and a hybrid 3d/graphic designer, you'll be needing about 10 printers.
Fun thing, printing onto 'glass' or other surfaces will net different finishes. The flexible pebble textured build plates are just thing gauge spring steel covered with something very close to Nekoosa Eclypse laminate, a sample roll of 10'x30" from them is free, and would net you like 20 or 30 build plates. (You'll want extra build plates if you venture into petg or PC, as those can straight up weld themselves to the build plate if your initial layer height is not ideal.)
What printer are you running? Your letters look sharp, keep it up!
 

tulsagraphics

New Member
Anyone else printing dimensional letters and signage? Wondering what kind of success you are having. One interesting fact we are noticing is is the final material cost. The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year) Compare that to a Gemini 7" formed letter at 3/4" depth for $14.71 cost which has a retail price of $46.70.
Apples vs. oranges. Gemini's formed letters are designed for long term outdoor use. PLA doesn't have that kind of durability -- not even close.

For indoor use? PLA is probably fine.

For outdoor use (just spit balling here), maybe you could print at a really low fill volume (faster print time, low cost), then prime / coat with ---- what's the stuff they use to coat expanded foam signs? (super strong stuff) -- maybe an epoxy? Then you'll need to prime/paint to get your color. Should be doable, but I don't see much cost savings after all that labor -- compared to Gemini.
And for install, I could see VHB / silicone adhering really well to an epoxy surface. Not sure about stud mounts though. That could be a little tricky.
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Textured surface would likely be non compliant, but you can get around it by purchasing ada compliant materials for the 'panels', as printing that area is the most time consuming part anyways.

So a 7" letter only has the cost figured in, not your overhead. Not that their is a great deal of overhead with a 3d printer, but look at it this way. You can sell a 7" letter for $46.70 (just assuming you will shoot for and stop at gemini's suggested retail) So $46.70 - 4.50 for materials + 1.25 for maintenance. Let's consider a small shop rent and utilities at a combined 1,000/month, with 5/8 hour days. I'm assuming a 7" letter took about 2 hours to print, and let's just say your demand for 7" letters is banging, nothing but. So you have 1 machine, knocking out 4 a day, 20 a week, or 80 a month. At 80 a month, you'll bring in $3,736. That's great! It'll cover our theoretical rent and utilities, only 360 in materials and 100 in machine cost. But now you're left with $2,276 to pay yourself. For a month. So that'll cover a low cost employee to setup the machines. I'd think to hit a volume where you'd be bringing in enough to cover a sales guy, a part time accountant, and a hybrid 3d/graphic designer, you'll be needing about 10 printers.
Fun thing, printing onto 'glass' or other surfaces will net different finishes. The flexible pebble textured build plates are just thing gauge spring steel covered with something very close to Nekoosa Eclypse laminate, a sample roll of 10'x30" from them is free, and would net you like 20 or 30 build plates. (You'll want extra build plates if you venture into petg or PC, as those can straight up weld themselves to the build plate if your initial layer height is not ideal.)
What printer are you running? Your letters look sharp, keep it up!
This was done on a Bambu X1 Carbon. If we end up moving forward with more 3D interior wayfinding signs, the cheaper printers will suffice making it more feasible to buy more of them!

Also, we are just learning about the different bed setups and glass does sound interesting. It produces some very smooth finishes. Hoping to give that a try soon.
 

Gettin'By

New Member
As long as that Eclypse lam can take the heat of whatever filament you're going to print with. So at least 50c below and 220c from the nozzle, sure I guess that'd work.
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Yes it will
ADA is not a Canadian standard. (It really should be but that's another discussion) Unfortunately Canada doesn't have a comprehensive standard, rather, it's left up to each province and municipality right now as to what standards they want to adopt. I don't believe any of our standards call out the sign face texture but I could be wrong.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
As long as that Eclypse lam can take the heat of whatever filament you're going to print with. So at least 50c below and 220c from the nozzle, sure I guess that'd work.
Just looking at their offerings, I guess they dropped the Eclypse name and offer it as a overlaminate solution, now it's just a polycarbonate laminate in various thicknesses.
They used to sell a polycarbonate with no adhesive, called Claritex, it was great for business cards, but they discontinued it. I took a drop of this Claritex, mounted 3m 467mp adhesive to it, then mounted it to my ruined build plate. This worked like a charm. I'm assuming the overlaminate with adhesive they are producing is on par with my assembly, but the 467mp is pricey adhesive, not sure nekoosa would use as robust of an adhesive, but I stand by the 10' of 30" material makes a lot of build plates!
This was done on a Bambu X1 Carbon. If we end up moving forward with more 3D interior wayfinding signs, the cheaper printers will suffice making it more feasible to buy more of them!
I want to say that the bambu's are going to excel at making interior stuffs moreso than the cheaper brethren. Numerous companies produce 2'x2'x5" printers, though all of the advertising is rough translated chinese, which just gives me the willies. Creality makes a k8 that is designed for printing letters, also just came across this monster that isn't too absurdly priced at around $50k, but that would not fit the bill here, just interesting:
 
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