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3D Printed Dimensional Letters

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Anyone else printing dimensional letters and signage? Wondering what kind of success you are having. One interesting fact we are noticing is is the final material cost. The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year) Compare that to a Gemini 7" formed letter at 3/4" depth for $14.71 cost which has a retail price of $46.70.
 

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Gettin'By

New Member
Have to be careful what filament you use, some don't like to get too warm, like PLA. It'll warp in the Texas sun. Also has to be structurally sound to take a screw like that. What kind of filament was this?
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Have to be careful what filament you use, some don't like to get too warm, like PLA. It'll warp in the Texas sun. Also has to be structurally sound to take a screw like that. What kind of filament was this?
This is a matte PLA test for indoor letters. The bosses are for pin-mounts, not screws. For outdoors we understand that an ASA or ABS should be used for both temperature swings and UV stability. Haven't tested those yet but looking forward to it. We are also trying some tactile signage options (attached). Looks promising so far. Especially for braille.
 

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JBurton

Signtologist
Textured surface would likely be non compliant, but you can get around it by purchasing ada compliant materials for the 'panels', as printing that area is the most time consuming part anyways.
The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year)
So a 7" letter only has the cost figured in, not your overhead. Not that their is a great deal of overhead with a 3d printer, but look at it this way. You can sell a 7" letter for $46.70 (just assuming you will shoot for and stop at gemini's suggested retail) So $46.70 - 4.50 for materials + 1.25 for maintenance. Let's consider a small shop rent and utilities at a combined 1,000/month, with 5/8 hour days. I'm assuming a 7" letter took about 2 hours to print, and let's just say your demand for 7" letters is banging, nothing but. So you have 1 machine, knocking out 4 a day, 20 a week, or 80 a month. At 80 a month, you'll bring in $3,736. That's great! It'll cover our theoretical rent and utilities, only 360 in materials and 100 in machine cost. But now you're left with $2,276 to pay yourself. For a month. So that'll cover a low cost employee to setup the machines. I'd think to hit a volume where you'd be bringing in enough to cover a sales guy, a part time accountant, and a hybrid 3d/graphic designer, you'll be needing about 10 printers.
Fun thing, printing onto 'glass' or other surfaces will net different finishes. The flexible pebble textured build plates are just thing gauge spring steel covered with something very close to Nekoosa Eclypse laminate, a sample roll of 10'x30" from them is free, and would net you like 20 or 30 build plates. (You'll want extra build plates if you venture into petg or PC, as those can straight up weld themselves to the build plate if your initial layer height is not ideal.)
What printer are you running? Your letters look sharp, keep it up!
 

tulsagraphics

New Member
Anyone else printing dimensional letters and signage? Wondering what kind of success you are having. One interesting fact we are noticing is is the final material cost. The attached 7" tall letter at 1" depth used $4.50 CDN worth of filament to produce (add another $1.25 to cover machine costs over 5 year) Compare that to a Gemini 7" formed letter at 3/4" depth for $14.71 cost which has a retail price of $46.70.
Apples vs. oranges. Gemini's formed letters are designed for long term outdoor use. PLA doesn't have that kind of durability -- not even close.

For indoor use? PLA is probably fine.

For outdoor use (just spit balling here), maybe you could print at a really low fill volume (faster print time, low cost), then prime / coat with ---- what's the stuff they use to coat expanded foam signs? (super strong stuff) -- maybe an epoxy? Then you'll need to prime/paint to get your color. Should be doable, but I don't see much cost savings after all that labor -- compared to Gemini.
And for install, I could see VHB / silicone adhering really well to an epoxy surface. Not sure about stud mounts though. That could be a little tricky.
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Textured surface would likely be non compliant, but you can get around it by purchasing ada compliant materials for the 'panels', as printing that area is the most time consuming part anyways.

So a 7" letter only has the cost figured in, not your overhead. Not that their is a great deal of overhead with a 3d printer, but look at it this way. You can sell a 7" letter for $46.70 (just assuming you will shoot for and stop at gemini's suggested retail) So $46.70 - 4.50 for materials + 1.25 for maintenance. Let's consider a small shop rent and utilities at a combined 1,000/month, with 5/8 hour days. I'm assuming a 7" letter took about 2 hours to print, and let's just say your demand for 7" letters is banging, nothing but. So you have 1 machine, knocking out 4 a day, 20 a week, or 80 a month. At 80 a month, you'll bring in $3,736. That's great! It'll cover our theoretical rent and utilities, only 360 in materials and 100 in machine cost. But now you're left with $2,276 to pay yourself. For a month. So that'll cover a low cost employee to setup the machines. I'd think to hit a volume where you'd be bringing in enough to cover a sales guy, a part time accountant, and a hybrid 3d/graphic designer, you'll be needing about 10 printers.
Fun thing, printing onto 'glass' or other surfaces will net different finishes. The flexible pebble textured build plates are just thing gauge spring steel covered with something very close to Nekoosa Eclypse laminate, a sample roll of 10'x30" from them is free, and would net you like 20 or 30 build plates. (You'll want extra build plates if you venture into petg or PC, as those can straight up weld themselves to the build plate if your initial layer height is not ideal.)
What printer are you running? Your letters look sharp, keep it up!
This was done on a Bambu X1 Carbon. If we end up moving forward with more 3D interior wayfinding signs, the cheaper printers will suffice making it more feasible to buy more of them!

Also, we are just learning about the different bed setups and glass does sound interesting. It produces some very smooth finishes. Hoping to give that a try soon.
 

Gettin'By

New Member
As long as that Eclypse lam can take the heat of whatever filament you're going to print with. So at least 50c below and 220c from the nozzle, sure I guess that'd work.
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
Yes it will
ADA is not a Canadian standard. (It really should be but that's another discussion) Unfortunately Canada doesn't have a comprehensive standard, rather, it's left up to each province and municipality right now as to what standards they want to adopt. I don't believe any of our standards call out the sign face texture but I could be wrong.
 

Bxtr

New Member
So if you had a router and just routed out of 3/4 Black PVC and drilled stud holes, material cost would be $1.75/number and take a fraction of the time.
I'm all for 3D printing, it just doesn't make sense cost/time to me. Unless I'm missing something...
 

JBurton

Signtologist
As long as that Eclypse lam can take the heat of whatever filament you're going to print with. So at least 50c below and 220c from the nozzle, sure I guess that'd work.
Just looking at their offerings, I guess they dropped the Eclypse name and offer it as a overlaminate solution, now it's just a polycarbonate laminate in various thicknesses.
They used to sell a polycarbonate with no adhesive, called Claritex, it was great for business cards, but they discontinued it. I took a drop of this Claritex, mounted 3m 467mp adhesive to it, then mounted it to my ruined build plate. This worked like a charm. I'm assuming the overlaminate with adhesive they are producing is on par with my assembly, but the 467mp is pricey adhesive, not sure nekoosa would use as robust of an adhesive, but I stand by the 10' of 30" material makes a lot of build plates!
This was done on a Bambu X1 Carbon. If we end up moving forward with more 3D interior wayfinding signs, the cheaper printers will suffice making it more feasible to buy more of them!
I want to say that the bambu's are going to excel at making interior stuffs moreso than the cheaper brethren. Numerous companies produce 2'x2'x5" printers, though all of the advertising is rough translated chinese, which just gives me the willies. Creality makes a k8 that is designed for printing letters, also just came across this monster that isn't too absurdly priced at around $50k, but that would not fit the bill here, just interesting:
 

Owen Signcraft

New Member
So if you had a router and just routed out of 3/4 Black PVC and drilled stud holes, material cost would be $1.75/number and take a fraction of the time.
I'm all for 3D printing, it just doesn't make sense cost/time to me. Unless I'm missing something...
I may be missing where you buy 1" PVC for that cost?? A 4x8 sheet of 1" PVC (the 3D letter is 1" thick) is about $350 CDN/sheet. That's about $11.00 CDN/sq.ft. which is what you would need to cut a 7" letter on a CNC. Plus now I have spent 5 times as much on CNC than a 3D printer and lets hope I can sell more 1" thick shapes or the rest of that 4x8 sheet is also wasted. A roll of filament is $30.00 CDN and isn't limited to just 1" letters.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
I may be missing where you buy 1" PVC for that cost?? A 4x8 sheet of 1" PVC (the 3D letter is 1" thick) is about $350 CDN/sheet. That's about $11.00 CDN/sq.ft. which is what you would need to cut a 7" letter on a CNC. Plus now I have spent 5 times as much on CNC than a 3D printer and lets hope I can sell more 1" thick shapes or the rest of that 4x8 sheet is also wasted. A roll of filament is $30.00 CDN and isn't limited to just 1" letters.
Probably the difference in the cost of 3/4" vs 1", coupled with a fully nested sheet of 7" 5's (I can squeeze 138 on a 4x8). A CNC can do this lickity split, but this is like comparing a fork to a spoon. Yes, it can be done way faster with a different machine, but the other machine is going to make a mess, take up much more room, and potentially need some new circuits pulled.
Try something a little different on the 3d letters, like a beveled face, or textured sides. One of my favorites was a cross hatch that made the sides of the letter look like a woven basket.
 

bigben

Not a newbie
I may be missing where you buy 1" PVC for that cost?? A 4x8 sheet of 1" PVC (the 3D letter is 1" thick) is about $350 CDN/sheet. That's about $11.00 CDN/sq.ft. which is what you would need to cut a 7" letter on a CNC. Plus now I have spent 5 times as much on CNC than a 3D printer and lets hope I can sell more 1" thick shapes or the rest of that 4x8 sheet is also wasted. A roll of filament is $30.00 CDN and isn't limited to just 1" letters.
I've looked at 3D printing to do interior stuff. It was about 2-3 years ago, but the speed was horrible. For example, laser cut a 7in tall ''A'' in 1in thick acrylic take me 4min. It would be faster with a CNC. I would curious how much time a 3D printer would take to create that even if the letter is hollow. Plus I did not like the textured finish with the test I've made.

Also, here in Canada, 3D printed signs was not permitted when I've checked this out 2-3 years ago. Maybe it have changed since then.
 

pro-UP

New Member
As a word of warning, 3D printed text and braille are not compatible with laminate sign faces. They fail very quickly, at least in my experience. Although if anyone has a solution that would be great to learn.
 

Ryze Signs

New Member
I considered the 3D printed letter thing. It's just too slow, and the size limitations are an issue. I could cut several sheets of numbers before one number is done printing. For the most part material costs are minuscule compared to labor.
 

Splash0321

Professional Amateur
I don’t think 3d printed letters are a “professional” option. The finish isn’t smooth unless you use acetone to smooth it, or use a filler and sand it smooth then repaint. That’s the only way I feel you can achieve an acceptable professional product.

Additionally, you’ve now limited yourself to producing indoor only products. These won’t last outdoors. The material (abs, pla, etc) is designed to melt at low enough temps to allow it to flow through nozzles of a 3d printer. That means their structural integrity is lost when the sun hits them. They won’t melt but it’s enough to warp them.

A laser cutter is an alternative. It’s not as much as a cnc in most cases, but is more than a 3d printer. You’re still limited to cutting simple shapes rather than being able to use a cnc and producing any 3d shapes/curves you can design.
 

ikarasu

Active Member
I considered the 3D printed letter thing. It's just too slow, and the size limitations are an issue. I could cut several sheets of numbers before one number is done printing. For the most part material costs are minuscule compared to labor.
These days size isn't an issue.


And you can add extra hot ends to it.... So if you're printing smaller, it'll print 3-4 letters at a time... Albeit the same letter.
 
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