3m ij40 multiple failures

[peavey123]

Hi All,

We've been having issues with 3M IJ40 C vinyl. Laminated with a Select Source laminate rated for 4 years (which is great for calendared laminates lifespan) Used on windows. It's lifting around the edges after only about 1 year. Note the windows that are failing are in the sun most of the day.

Our issue is slightly strange to us because the vinyl is only failing for one customer that is a franchise at a few of their different locations.

Installs were all done in proper temperature ranges with proper techniques by our installer. No doubt in our installers skills here.

Is this material junk? I used to use Oracal 3651 RA for windows but last year we got talked into trying this stuff out and have used a few rolls for different applications, but mostly window graphics. Our supplier is telling us to use 3M 180...that seems nuts to me...what do you all use? Any thoughts?

My thought is either the laminate is a bad match, or the material is just junk...but it's supposed to last 7 years...so the weak point would be the lam as it's only rated for 4.

What do you all use for window graphics? Is there a cheaper (than IJ180) cast alternative that would be good?

Thanks,
Peav.

 

[Gino]

I trust you are digitally printing to this vinyl ??

If so, are you printing to the very edge ??
Are these failing windows facing south ??
Are these windows treated with privacy tint ??
Are the colors dark near the edge ??
Your installer did them dry ??

 

[Solventinkjet]

I put up a 24" x 36" decal on our warehouse window using Arlon DPF-4500, un-laminated, about 5 years ago and the ink is fading but the vinyl itself is flat and stuck on pretty good. It gets hit directly with about 6 hours of the Colorado sun each day. If laminated we probably wouldn't be replacing it next week. You can also get the DPF-4560GTX for easier install. It's essentially the same vinyl with air release but some people don't like the dark gray adhesive as it can leave hard to clean residue.

 

[MikePro]

its your combination of materials. sounds like the laminate is crap (for the conditions), and is taking your intermediate-grade vinyl down along with it.
go with a cast laminate OR liquid-laminate (to save a few $$$), or at the very least use 3M's recommended laminate (8509) for the application so you can lean on their warranty when/if your product fails.

 

[AaronSSsignsKC]

I would try to stick with just the 3m laminates on 3m products using different laminates is fine for short term graphics but longer term outdoor graphics i personally would just stay away from second party lams. Especially on Glass, it is effected more by climate change glass reacts different to heat and cold and the constant flux in the glass can cause laminates especially cheaper ones to shrink faster therefore causing the media to curl and fail.

 

[peavey123]

So it seems you guys also think it's the laminate. I also just went over the specs for IJ40 C. The adhesive is "removable" whereas 3651 RA is "permanent" and I've never had 3651 lift. I wonder if the lack of a good solid adhesive on the IJ40 is also part of the problem?

 

[reQ]

Lam is bad. I use cast overlam with 40c. (290/8518 rated for 8 years & 40c rated for 7 years so its good match) As for adhesive, no, in my experience there should be no problems at all.

 

[peavey123]

Makes sense it's the lam. Thanks everyone. This is what happens when you listen to salesmen and not your own experience. haha ah well.

 

[reQ]

Makes sense it's the lam. Thanks everyone. This is what happens when you listen to salesmen and not your own experience. haha ah well.

Thats right. Same goes for another example... 35c+8509 i think is the lam that goes with bundle... complete junk that won't last even a year outside. Everything goes by own experience pretty much

 

[MagnificentBastid]

I agree what the other's have said about the laminate, and I would recommend the IJ35C over the IJ40R.

 

[peavey123]

Thanks Everyone.

So do any of you guys use a "cheaper" cast alternative for window graphics? Or do you pretty much use calendared vinyl?

 

[reQ]

I would recommend the IJ35C over the IJ40R.

What....?

 

[peavey123]

its your combination of materials. sounds like the laminate is crap (for the conditions), and is taking your intermediate-grade vinyl down along with it.
go with a cast laminate OR liquid-laminate (to save a few $$$), or at the very least use 3M's recommended laminate (8509) for the application so you can lean on their warranty when/if your product fails.

We're going to start using IJ180 now for any longer-term glass application.