3M / Original Wraps update.

[HulkSmash]

First I'd like to say thank-you to everyone for being supportive over the matter. As most of you know i started a thread back in Sept about how 3M was dipping into our market. (See the thread here.)

I think it's only fair to give everyone who gave their time and support an update on what is going on. Let me start off by saying this is not a hate thread, or a boycott thread.. just an informative block.

Another company and I met with 3M back in Oct to discuss our issues with this program they had going on. Looks like I finally got some answers.

Here is what I have been told.

1. How will the projects be distributed when there is more than one approved printer in an area?

Initially new projects will be distributed on a rotational basis, however eventually dealerships will have the option of requesting certain approved GM's for projects.

2. What happens when an incentive customer is an existing customer of a current sign and wrap shop?

When an incentive is involved and it is one of the sign shops current customers, as participants in the program that shop would be asked to fulfill the base incentive requirement first, after which you would then have the option to either adjust your pricing accordingly for any up sell to match your established pricing (if desired), or use the standard pricing for the program.


What is the Incentive customer?

Dealerships, (specifically Nissan, currently) are offering a small incentive. One of those incentives is Nissan paying for up to 70 SF of wrap vinyl put on the new vehicle (See Details Here). The dealership will pretty much pay us about 6.00 a SQFT to print and install 70sqft of vinyl... so we're pretty much giving it away. Then it's up to "us" to talk up the customer to get the full wrap, and convince them it is OK to now charge 10-12 a SF for the rest of the wrap. Along with the wrap incentive they're also offering racks, tire upgrades, and other stuff.. so there is no guarantee they will chose the wrap incentive.. we have to rely on the car salesman to win the pitch for us... yay


Want to print for them?

You have to initializing a printing/packaging quality test. Once passed your shop would then be eligible to start receiving projects through the program.
So pretty much at this point the sign and wrap shops are printing, and installing. 3M is just a "middle man" providing an online portal, and connections.


Now this is a good idea on 3m's part, but let me tell you why, in my OPINION, it will.not.work.


1st. They will be distributing on a rotation basis. This includes design/print/install. So today, I would be getting a $900 Partial wrap on a truck, and tomorrow my competition will get a $60,000 30 vehicle fleet. Yup, sounds like it's a fair option...
So each shop gets a gamble based on if its their turn or not to get a job.

2nd. I have to rely on a car sales man to convince a customer to sell a wrap or a alloy wheels, or maybe a nice power coated Rack! And then I have to give away 70 SF of vinyl, then tell the customer i have to charge them double to finish the remainder of the car? You think that's going to go over well?

3rd. What's stopping dealerships who sells large fleets from sending out their mechanics to get 3M certified for their own installs to keep it in house? If i owned a dealership.. that would be my first move. Keep as much money as i can in house, and cut out the real graphic installers.

Who gave Nissan the idea to give away a wrap at the price of under $6.00 a SF. This is RUINING our industry. You think it's going to be easy to talk a customer into paying double that to finish the wrap, or continue the wrap on his other vehicles? I have to rely on a dealership in the long run to provide me with a customer. Why not let the customer choose?

3M has been responsive and helpful in the matter..but still need to rethink what they are doing.

My opinion is that 3M can sell decal kits, stripes..car kits..whatever.. Don't care..

They still need to be removing themselves from the custom graphics part of our industry... or we are going to have a disaster, and a serious downward spiral in our wrap industry.

I felt it was necessary to post an update after the other thread ended in an abrupt manner.

thanks again everyone for taking their time to read this.

 

[Border]

Thanks for the update and time you have put into gathering the info and posting it here.

 

[Gino]

Thanks for the update.

The way I see it, realistically.... it's the same as when hand-painters were introduced to the 4b and then the other computer-aided sign making machines which were going to revolutionize the industry. Well, they did and there isn't a thing the same as it was back in 1970. Now, things are beginning to change from what they were in 1999..... things just aren't the same.

I'm sure when they invented the light bulb and electricity a lot of hand painters were upset, since they knew nothing about electric, yet. They adapted. Oh yeah, then they put electric into the shops and you could use power tools to do things. Then the telephone, answering machine and faxes. Progress, it's a wonderful thing.

There are no constants in life. Things are always changing and not always for the best for everyone. Ya win some.... ya lose some. What's more important than trying to remain stagnate is to review your own game plan and move forward. Beat them to the punch and find new areas, new niches, new customers. Do you know how many times some of us here on this site have seen this industry change over the last 30, 40 or 50 years ?? It's unbelievable, but we made it..... and so will you.

3M is huge..... and they know it. You're gonna have a hard task trying to beat them at their own game, but I hafta give ya credit..... you're determined.

Again, I hope you get what you're looking for, and if I can be of any help, let me know.

Gino​

 

[rjssigns]

Big picture to me is the $6 per sq.ft. deal for the first 70 squares. I can't compete with that.
I also believe it will lead to business owners getting "partials" and calling it good.
Think about it for a minute. 35 squares per side is a lot of advertising.

In my market 3M's strategy would automatically kill any chance I had of getting work for those specified vehicles.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Thanks for the update. I've been curious about the OW situation.

 

[HulkSmash]

Thanks for the update.

The way I see it, realistically.... it's the same as when hand-painters were introduced to the 4b and then the other computer-aided sign making machines which were going to revolutionize the industry. Well, they did and there isn't a thing the same as it was back in 1970. Now, things are beginning to change from what they were in 1999..... things just aren't the same.

I'm sure when they invented the light bulb and electricity a lot of hand painters were upset, since they knew nothing about electric, yet. They adapted. Oh yeah, then they put electric into the shops and you could use power tools to do things. Then the telephone, answering machine and faxes. Progress, it's a wonderful thing.

There are no constants in life. Things are always changing and not always for the best for everyone. Ya win some.... ya lose some. What's more important than trying to remain stagnate is to review your own game plan and move forward. Beat them to the punch and find new areas, new niches, new customers. Do you know how many times some of us here on this site have seen this industry change over the last 30, 40 or 50 years ?? It's unbelievable, but we made it..... and so will you.

3M is huge..... and they know it. You're gonna have a hard task trying to beat them at their own game, but I hafta give ya credit..... you're determined.

Again, I hope you get what you're looking for, and if I can be of any help, let me know.

Gino​

Not trying to fight them Gino. Trust me, I'm actually sick of the back and forward with them. I'm really just following up on my rage thread. They have good intent trying to spread the word of wraps.. but the way they're doing it.. is just ruining our market.

 

[John Butto]

outsourcing

Gino's analogy on the 4B and signpainters to the 3M scenario which Colorado is talking about is not a good one. Everyone made more money, distributors, sign people, manufacturers etc. when the vinyl market opened up in the 70's with the introduction of the Gerber 4B. You could make more signs at a quicker pace, hence more profit.
What 3M is doing is insourcing the american worker to make less money by offering not a new product but labor that is cheaper than what the consumer is paying now with established markets. 3M still sells their product and reaps the profit and that is where it stops as far as the signpeople are concerned.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Gino's analogy on the 4B and signpainters to the 3M scenario which Colorado is talking about is not a good one. Everyone made more money, distributors, sign people, manufacturers etc. when the vinyl market opened up in the 70's with the introduction of the Gerber 4B. You could make more signs at a quicker pace, hence more profit.
What 3M is doing is insourcing the american worker to make less money by offering not a new product but labor that is cheaper than what the consumer is paying now with established markets. 3M still sells their product and reaps the profit and that is where it stops as far as the signpeople are concerned.

Not to take away from your point, but rather to keep from creating misinformation:

The Gerber Signmaker was introduced in 1982 as the Signmaker 2 to a limited market for testing. The first production model was the Signmaker 3 in 1983. This was soon replaced by the SM4 which added auto kerned fonts. Next came the 4A which added to extra pins to the sprocket feed in an effort to prevent competitive vinyl from working in the plotter. Then came the 4B which added more power for handling plug-in modules for outlining and shadowing.

Prior to that time, vinyl lettering was only available through outsource companies like Gregory, Inc. and Grafitek of Vermont or from companies like Die-Cuts. Cutting equipment came from Europe and had six figure price tags.

 

[Gino]

You can look at it your way, but do you know how many sign guys back in 1982 through 1992 had no clue as to how to even click a mouse, let alone work on these machines ?? I was merely pointing out change.... fast change in a field. Many had to close up shop, cause they couldn't afford this new fangled gadgetry when it first came out. It was good for the younger people who could actually connect with change, as I pointed out already.

There was a guy down the street from us called 'Instant Sign & Banner'. I believe it was a franchise, but he cranked out the crappiest crap, I ever saw, but had prices where no sensible sign guy could think of going. No one could compete, but as he got more and more customers, he slowly went out of business, cause he wasn't any good at business. Needless to say, he had no clue of the sign business and basically lost his business for that reason..... not to mention, his idea of an outdoor sign was wrapping a paper sign in saran wrap and stapling it to a piece of marine plywood. Seriously.

 

[John Butto]

Gino, "change is unsettling". This 3M thing has nothing to do with change. This type of business practice has been going on since we were using shells and salt for exchanging goods. Rich guy uses his wealth to sell more of his goods by getting rid of middle of the road traders by getting them to lower their prices to compete. Example: Rich man brings his product into the marketplace and sells it to the smaller companies. They mark it up and sell it to other smaller companies who in turn mark it up again. Now comes where you call "change". After the market gets established, they are bypassing the first company and selling it directly to the enduser where their profits will be more than the older way they did business. Two middlemen have been eliminated.

 

[Graphics2u]

3M still sells their product and reaps the profit .

What about 3M reimbursing 50% of the cost of materials for those 70 sq. feet of incentives. Seems like they are out nothing in the matter.

 

[Gino]

John......

I get the felling you are arguing with yourself. I'm not disputing the fact that business and big business can or can't get along. I didn't say things can't change or won't or can. I'm just saying, you either have to play the game or get out of the way. It's not gonna stop, just because one doesn't like the odds. Ya need to roll with the punches and if everytime something goes wrong and it doesn't fit one's criteria as to how their business model is set up...... it's simply too bad and life will pass you by if one isn't careful and willing to re-access themselves. The two you pose as being eliminated... evidently elected not to participate anymore and rolled over. They didn't think it out.

All-in-all, for the most part, this 3M thing is only affecting very large wrapping companies who have created a niche for themselves. The ground is getting shaky and they've been warned for quite some time this is going to happen. Not doing anything about it, they now find themselves in a rather tight squeeze..... their business model has been threatened. Doesn't matter how many rich people are cutting you out of the picture or not...... their way of doing business could be eliminated.... for good. I'm saying they need to re-invent themselves or go by way of the dinosaurs like the brush-slinging guys. You're correct that it happens over and over and over again, but never to the same people, so it always seems new when it happens to you. Hence why we all keep answering the same questions here over and over and over again...... it will never stop starting.......

​

 

[John Butto]

misinformation effect

Not to take away from your point, but rather to keep from creating misinformation:

The Gerber Signmaker was introduced in 1982 as the Signmaker 2 to a limited market for testing. The first production model was the Signmaker 3 in 1983. This was soon replaced by the SM4 which added auto kerned fonts. Next came the 4A which added to extra pins to the sprocket feed in an effort to prevent competitive vinyl from working in the plotter. Then came the 4B which added more power for handling plug-in modules for outlining and shadowing.

Prior to that time, vinyl lettering was only available through outsource companies like Gregory, Inc. and Grafitek of Vermont or from companies like Die-Cuts. Cutting equipment came from Europe and had six figure price tags.

The doctor says that this effect is from the purple double dome still in my system and of course my age.

 

[HulkSmash]

What about 3M reimbursing 50% of the cost of materials for those 70 sq. feet of incentives. Seems like they are out nothing in the matter.

Except they don't, and WON't do that.

 

[John Butto]

3M branding

3M Rodeo coming to your town.

 

[HulkSmash]

3M Rodeo coming to your town.

awesome

 

[m_s_p]

I would get 3m certified then wrap the vehicles with the cheapest non 3m material. The customer gets their $6 wrap. When it fails blame 3m. Its a win win. hahahaha.

 

[Gino]

I would get 3m certified then wrap the vehicles with the cheapest non 3m material. The customer gets their $6 wrap. When it fails blame 3m. Its a win win. hahahaha.

I guess your train of thought only makes local stops..... huh ??

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

In my market 3M's strategy would automatically kill any chance I had of getting work for those specified vehicles.

And lets see... you're in Wisconsin right?

 

[visual800]

I have seen more and more of these wraps in my area and although I don't wrap I was called on one to check on price and you can't touch it! It is one hell of a deal and one that ticks me off as 3M is taking money from us, the ones that supposedly buy from them.

And as Colorado said that rotation crap sucks I would be mad as hell to get the $500 job and competition get $10k. It's a bad deal for shops that specifically do wraps.

 

[rjssigns]

And lets see... you're in Wisconsin right?

Business owners do not want to spend for advertising. I will bet anyone 20 bucks and give them 2 hours to go out an find 5 full wraps in my town. The 3 other shops that did their trucks don't count.
So getting the first 70 squares free or dirt cheap will be "all she wrote" for this market.