There are thousands and thousands of Canadian doctors and nurses that cross the border to work in American hospitals every day. Our Prime Minister will be stopping them from helping US citizens and putting them to work in Canada so there how do you like that? Keep your fucking masks.
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3M Prioritizing N95 Masks Overseas
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It's funny because we have a lot of places that are about to start producing N95 masks. We could easily keep all the pulp and make our own supply shortly. I'm not sure if America has the ability to do the same and produce their own pulp.
That being said, As dumb as his request to 3M was... a trade war / fight isnt what we need. Lets say Canada says screw you and keeps all the pulp... Everything goes 100% good for us and we're cured... what are we going to do, block USA citizens from entering the country forever? How USA deals with the situation affects Canada... just like how Canada handles it affects USA.
The world is in this together. Little fights like this do nothing to help he situation... It's all political BS to make him look good, Every country / leader does it.
Just a month ago, Trump sent 10 tons of medical supplies to china - They needed it, and he sent it, which is how it should be. Now China is returning the favor and sending tons to USA - The worlds in this together, supplies should go where they need it the most.
Now to play devils advocate, some news companies are saying 3M is selling ALL of its supplies to china/taiwan and other countries because they pay more and have cash. Now if that were true, I Could understand trumps response... theres two sides to every story. I'm leaning more on believing 3M in this one because it sounds like something Trump would do / say... and seeing as how our PM looked into it, talked to trump, and still came out with a response saying retaliation is an option...
Hopefully it's all just a misunderstanding.
That being said, As dumb as his request to 3M was... a trade war / fight isnt what we need. Lets say Canada says screw you and keeps all the pulp... Everything goes 100% good for us and we're cured... what are we going to do, block USA citizens from entering the country forever? How USA deals with the situation affects Canada... just like how Canada handles it affects USA.
The world is in this together. Little fights like this do nothing to help he situation... It's all political BS to make him look good, Every country / leader does it.
Just a month ago, Trump sent 10 tons of medical supplies to china - They needed it, and he sent it, which is how it should be. Now China is returning the favor and sending tons to USA - The worlds in this together, supplies should go where they need it the most.
Now to play devils advocate, some news companies are saying 3M is selling ALL of its supplies to china/taiwan and other countries because they pay more and have cash. Now if that were true, I Could understand trumps response... theres two sides to every story. I'm leaning more on believing 3M in this one because it sounds like something Trump would do / say... and seeing as how our PM looked into it, talked to trump, and still came out with a response saying retaliation is an option...
Hopefully it's all just a misunderstanding.
GAC05
Quit buggin' me
I'm thinking along these lines. It is very hard to get reliable Canadian to English translators down here during this crisis.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Playa is being testy. We grow trees here too ya know.
CanuckSigns
Active Member
Yes you do, however there is only 1 mill in the world that makes the specific type of wood pulp needed to make N95 masks, and it's in canada. I'm sure you could set up a mill in the states that could do it, but when? If your president thought before he spoke we wouldn't have to be having this conversation.
3M N95 masks are actually a plastic instead of wood pulp.. However all the surgical masks and gowns are made with our pulp.. Another USA supplier uses the pulp to make n95 however.
There is A LOT of stuff both our countries rely on eachother for. Going tit for tat would not only be bad for USA, but also Canada.
I too wish the current climate was different. Everyone used to look to USA for guidance and relied on them for help during times like this. That's been mentioned since day one... There's so many articles and ways about how worldwide that's changing. That China is now taking advantage of the situation and being the world leader on this.
I choose not to take it personally - it's not that trump hates everyone but Americans and wishes them I'll....at least I don't think so. I think he's just trying to do whatever he thinks will garner him favor from his people. Not the best time for that, but whatever. Id still rather not get into a trade war and let thousands of people die because of one person.
Plus, USA is now the epicenter of this. You guys have more deaths per day than Italy.... It's only getting worst and worst. I'm sure he's getting scared and feels backed into a corner - not everyone can handle situations like this gracefully. There's been a few world leaders who have showed their true colors since this started.... Not everyone is perfect. And honestly, this just feels like another Friday / threatful tweet where nothing ever happens, all it does is causing his voters to rally.... And his opposition to get pissed. Getting used to it after a few years!
There is A LOT of stuff both our countries rely on eachother for. Going tit for tat would not only be bad for USA, but also Canada.
I too wish the current climate was different. Everyone used to look to USA for guidance and relied on them for help during times like this. That's been mentioned since day one... There's so many articles and ways about how worldwide that's changing. That China is now taking advantage of the situation and being the world leader on this.
I choose not to take it personally - it's not that trump hates everyone but Americans and wishes them I'll....at least I don't think so. I think he's just trying to do whatever he thinks will garner him favor from his people. Not the best time for that, but whatever. Id still rather not get into a trade war and let thousands of people die because of one person.
Plus, USA is now the epicenter of this. You guys have more deaths per day than Italy.... It's only getting worst and worst. I'm sure he's getting scared and feels backed into a corner - not everyone can handle situations like this gracefully. There's been a few world leaders who have showed their true colors since this started.... Not everyone is perfect. And honestly, this just feels like another Friday / threatful tweet where nothing ever happens, all it does is causing his voters to rally.... And his opposition to get pissed. Getting used to it after a few years!
3 days ago trump had 182,000 confirmed cases. Today it's at 280,000. These are confirmed through very limited testing. There are estimated to be millions of untested infected Americans. This thing is going to get really bad. Canada has a confirmed 12,500 as of now.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
No one will look to China for guidance unless you want to lie to yourself. The common thinking is to take their numbers and times it by 20. I talked to a local business owner that has a house still in China and he laughed and said it's way more than 20x.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
Theres no way. The chinese have already closed their field hospitals, sent doctors to help in Europe and are sending tons of medical supplies out when they were restricted before.
We keep saying here that the cases are much greater but we dont actually know. There are always naysayers but it doesnt make it true. We use to use quite a few different chinese vendors and I have been talking to them the past few weeks. What they are saying is pretty much whats been reported. They told me weeks ago that you always have to wear a mask or you will get it and now the cdc is starting to go that direction.
The chinese just handled this thing better and we made fun of their draconian restrictions but it worked and will probably end up happening here.
Johnny Best
Active Member
Player is giving us pulp fiction.
302,919 total cases.
25,700+ new confirmed cases today.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
We'll be at a million before the end of the month.
At this rate before the end of next week. The other scary thing is I have heard health specialists talking about there being millions and millions of undocumented cases. There is very little testing, and it takes at least 12 days to get the results back.
Johnny Best
Active Member
Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, the wife of Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, has tested positive for the novel coronavirus.
First, only a very small proportion of the masks 3M makes are made in the US. The vast majority are made in China. Trump asked 3M to prioritize their US production for US use instead of sending US production elsewhere and depending on masks from China only coming to the US. I don't see anything wrong with that. New York City alone has more cases of COVID-19 than the whole of Canada. Seems reasonable to prioritize getting the masks made in Minnesota there first, rather than waiting on masks to come from China.
The other point is that if there are millions and millions of undocumented cases, that would be a very good thing. Think about it. If, instead of there being 300,000 cases, there were 2,000,000 cases, you have dramatically increased the denominator for the case fatality rate. That drops the US rate from 2.5% to 0.35%, making this a very different characterization of COVID-19 than initially believed. Additionally, it would mean that there are a lot more people immune to the disease than currently believed.
Third, now that private laboratory testing has taken over the majority of testing, results are back in only a couple of days in our area. In New York City, the patients who were "accidentally" transferred from the Javits Center to the hospital ship (which was supposed to be only for non-COVID-19 trauma cases) had their tests come back positive the morning after they were taken. And once the new instant test kit Abbott developed gets distributed widely, there will be "instant" in-office testing available just like there is for influenza and strep and other things.
As far as how many people are getting tested, in my state, Missouri, there have been 2291 people tested positive, out of 24,727 people tested. That's only one out of more than ten people tested who have the virus. The case fatality rate in Missouri currently stands at 1.0% If you estimate that 30%-50% of those infected are asymptomatic and therefore would not have presented for testing (these numbers come from actual research in countries that did widespread population testing and from the cruise ship petri dish) then the case fatality rate would drop to as little as 0.5%.
Finally, with regard to mask use, the purpose of masks worn by the general public is NOT to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus. It is to prevent asymptomatic virus shedders (those who either have an asymptomatic infection or are in the prodrome phase of the illness before they exhibit symptoms) from infecting others as they go about. It works with normal cloth or paper or synthetic surgical-type masks because it keeps droplets and spray coming out of the nose and mouth and getting on others or objects. Respirators used by health personnel are an attempt to filter virus particles out of inspired air. To do so, they must seal against the face and must have sufficiently small filtration size. N95 masks are supposed to block passage of 95% of particles 0.3 microns in size. 0.3 microns is 300 nanometers. The SARS CoV-2 virion is 50-200 nanometers in diameter. Conclude what you will about that.
The other point is that if there are millions and millions of undocumented cases, that would be a very good thing. Think about it. If, instead of there being 300,000 cases, there were 2,000,000 cases, you have dramatically increased the denominator for the case fatality rate. That drops the US rate from 2.5% to 0.35%, making this a very different characterization of COVID-19 than initially believed. Additionally, it would mean that there are a lot more people immune to the disease than currently believed.
Third, now that private laboratory testing has taken over the majority of testing, results are back in only a couple of days in our area. In New York City, the patients who were "accidentally" transferred from the Javits Center to the hospital ship (which was supposed to be only for non-COVID-19 trauma cases) had their tests come back positive the morning after they were taken. And once the new instant test kit Abbott developed gets distributed widely, there will be "instant" in-office testing available just like there is for influenza and strep and other things.
As far as how many people are getting tested, in my state, Missouri, there have been 2291 people tested positive, out of 24,727 people tested. That's only one out of more than ten people tested who have the virus. The case fatality rate in Missouri currently stands at 1.0% If you estimate that 30%-50% of those infected are asymptomatic and therefore would not have presented for testing (these numbers come from actual research in countries that did widespread population testing and from the cruise ship petri dish) then the case fatality rate would drop to as little as 0.5%.
Finally, with regard to mask use, the purpose of masks worn by the general public is NOT to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus. It is to prevent asymptomatic virus shedders (those who either have an asymptomatic infection or are in the prodrome phase of the illness before they exhibit symptoms) from infecting others as they go about. It works with normal cloth or paper or synthetic surgical-type masks because it keeps droplets and spray coming out of the nose and mouth and getting on others or objects. Respirators used by health personnel are an attempt to filter virus particles out of inspired air. To do so, they must seal against the face and must have sufficiently small filtration size. N95 masks are supposed to block passage of 95% of particles 0.3 microns in size. 0.3 microns is 300 nanometers. The SARS CoV-2 virion is 50-200 nanometers in diameter. Conclude what you will about that.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/04/827321294/german-french-officials-accuse-u-s-of-diverting-supplies
Theyre not just asking 3M To keep products made in USA in USA - They're diverting shipments from china and other countries to USA and pretty much stealing supplies made in other naitons, for other nations.
EVERY country needs masks. Hoarding them all, or using force to take them all isn't the way to go about a world wide crisis. Theres a bigger picture here - Why would Canada, or any other country export raw materials for USA to make masks and have them refuse to supply them with said masks? Imagine if Canada said we have our own factories to make masks...so the ONLY pulp mill in the world making the materials used in surgical masks and hospital gowns stops supplying everyone else and keeps it all in Canada... that shortage would hurt everyone. At a time like this, we're all supposed to be sharing resources... If we turn on eachother like it seems we are, both countries are going to be much, much worst off than if they shared resources.
iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
To quote the orange man;
"We need the masks, we don't want other people getting them”
The whole America first thing may prove popular with his following but I cant imagine this will help with his standing in the international community in the short or long term.
"We need the masks, we don't want other people getting them”
The whole America first thing may prove popular with his following but I cant imagine this will help with his standing in the international community in the short or long term.
Yes. That was over a month ago and she has totally recovered. Boris Johnson has it right now.