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3M problem or install problem.

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by Git-R-Done, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Git-R-Done

    Git-R-Done Member

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    I installed these 36" decals a few months ago. Within a month they were peeling off the tankers. They were applied to brand new polished aluminum fuel tankers. I did them indoors and as always used denatured alcohol to prep the surface followed by a isopropyl alcohol wipe down. The material used was 3m controltac IJ180cv3 and laminated with 8519 laminate. As you can see from the photos the laminate is peeling off the print and the print is peeling off the tank. I know these tanks get acid washed but these new ones have not even left the lot yet and this was happening. Further more customer said none have had a bath yet. I also have applied miles of cut vinyl to these tanks with little to no problems. So my question is simple: did I screw up on install or was it my choice of material, or do you think this is a material failure. I personally think I may have chose the wrong material but that does not explain why the laminate is coming off the print.
    Anyhow, I have to re-do all 12 decals and do not want the same problem. Any suggestions would help out a lot!

    Thanks,
    G-R-D
     

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  2. Circleville Signs

    Circleville Signs Very Active Member

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    Shouldn't be an issue of correct material.

    Sounds like you might have laminated the prints too soon. Can you provide any details on that?
     
  3. Ponto

    Ponto Active Member

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    The failure looks isolated to the edges of both the vinyl and laminate (where no print or ink exists) so my guess would be end user issues (ie. cleaning). Perhaps an edge seal would help matters in the future.

    JP
     
  4. Git-R-Done

    Git-R-Done Member

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    Yeah, some (4) went from printer to laminator I know for sure. I did give that a thought. Not sure all did though. Would that have an effect on adhesion to the tanker or just laminate to print and why is it only happening on the high side not all the way around?
     
  5. Circleville Signs

    Circleville Signs Very Active Member

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    When your prints dont' outgas properly you will get shrinkage on the edges. This will affect the laminate adhering to the print as well as the print adhering to the application surface.

    Anytime I'm doing vehicle graphics, especially with a soft material like V3, I let my prints dry at least 10-12 hours - 24 in a perfect world. When you are doing contour cut stuff, this is even MORE important.
     
  6. gbarker

    gbarker Member

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    I would have done the same thing you did for the job. This might be a wild idea but what about heat? Internally radiating out of the empty tanks.
     
  7. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    If that peeling is just on the top it is the truck washing machine.
    I've seen it a dozen times..

    I would like to see a pic of the lower radius of that graphic..

    And is why I applied a clear lam just a little larger with about a 1/4 inch contour than the actual graphic.

    edited after another look.
    Oh yes,, if you look at the vertical lines they are not peeled at all. Just the top edges. = washer tunnel.
     
  8. mtmdesigns

    mtmdesigns Active Member

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    3M primer 94.
     
  9. WhiskeyDreamer

    WhiskeyDreamer Professional Snow Ninja

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    You sure its aluminum ... I know there is a special material for steel which is usually what tankers are made from ... did one a few years back and got the prints from gregory ... can't remember the namw of it though
     
  10. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    someone is lying to you. that is from client washing.
     
  11. gbarker

    gbarker Member

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    Not positive, it's just looks pretty like polished aluminum...
     
  12. Cross Signs

    Cross Signs Active Member

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    I agree!
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    As tech said... it's either their washing this.... or spillage and wiping it down.

    From the pictures you have posted it's only happening to the top side and not the vertical lines at all.

    Show a picture of the lower edge and I believe you'll find they aren't near as bad.


    Customer abuse !!

    However, did you ever take the time to explain to them how to care and maintain these decals ?? If not, then you might be considered at fault.
     
  14. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    I agree it's damage from washing or spillage because it's only on the top edges. I doubt it's got anything to do with outgassing or ink curing because there's a healthy white margin around the edges and that's where the laminate is lifting and the vinyl is coming up.
     
  15. Git-R-Done

    Git-R-Done Member

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    Thanks for the posts so far.

    As far as clien abuse, I am 100% shure it was not that as these things were inside when I did these decals and lots of other things to the tankers and tractors. I spend a lot of time at this place. Most were inside for two weeks after they were lettered and then they went to the parking lot and are still there untouched by anyone, just rain. Two are on the road and look the same as the ones that are sitting.

    Is there any reason to switch to a cast material with a perminant adhesive or is this IJ180-10Cv3 just fine?

    I will definantly let prints sit for 24hours before lamination this time.:banghead:

    Thanks,
    G-R-D

    :doh:
     
  16. tintguy31794

    tintguy31794 Member

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    I'm not as technical as most that have posted here, but I would automatically assume that it was the guys washing the trucks.... I would at least ask the customer this... if they say its not then its not... you can't call them out. who knows they might admit some fault.
     
  17. Git-R-Done

    Git-R-Done Member

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    I'm not looking for fault, I just don't want to lose the customer or have to redo the job a 3rd time.

    Thanks
     
  18. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    cut the lam @ 1/4" outside the printed graphic (print, cut, weed, lam, cut)

    and also let properly dry (outgas...) before lamination
     
  19. luggnut

    luggnut Very Active Member

    can this be done.. how do you cut the lamination after the graphic has been weeded ... no registration marks?
     
  20. Mason

    Mason Very Active Member

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    Are you aware that if the truck goes through a commercial truck wash, they use acid to wash them?

    If not, you do now.
     
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