3M Wrap Vinyl Issue...

[spmracing]

I used the 3M IJ180Cv3-10 with 8519 Laminate..

Printed on a Mutoh Eco Solvent printer.. Let it sit for two days (laying out flat across the shop upstairs in the storage room (air conditioned, not humid) and then laminated 48 hours later..)

Installed 3 days later on a flat boat after cleaning with dawn dish soap, and then alcohol.. Then sealed the edges.. The boat was about a year old, no chips, hasn't ever been waxed...

Now the wrap is getting TONS of little bubbles in it and I'm about to be out $1200 bucks in materials to redo it...

Anyone have ANY idea what would do this?

 

[GAC05]

Sounds like you have done everything right - bubbles 3 days later seems out of the ordinary for air release vinyl.
You have photos of what is going on?
Does it look like the lam is lifting up off the 180 or is the base vinyl bubbling up off the boat?
How did you lay down the vinyl - hard block with felt or Velcro on the edge?
The air channels on the v3 are small and air can get trapped in long thin lines if you don't overlap your squeegee strokes & use firm pressure.
Usually letting them sit for a while flattens them out and then a second hard pass with a squeegee & torch will set the glue the
way it is supposed to.
The only time I have seen delayed bubbles show up like what you describe was with cast vinyl on acrylic and it was not printed.
Maybe some kind of sealer on the boat's gelcoat that the alcohol did not remove.

Hope you find out what is going on.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[2B]

that does not sound good,

was there a sudden change in temperature with the vinyl and/or boat since the install?

did you do the custom post heating?

 

[HulkSmash]

I used the 3M IJ180Cv3-10 with 8519 Laminate..

Printed on a Mutoh Eco Solvent printer.. Let it sit for two days (laying out flat across the shop upstairs in the storage room (air conditioned, not humid) and then laminated 48 hours later..)

Installed 3 days later on a flat boat after cleaning with dawn dish soap, and then alcohol.. Then sealed the edges.. The boat was about a year old, no chips, hasn't ever been waxed...

Now the wrap is getting TONS of little bubbles in it and I'm about to be out $1200 bucks in materials to redo it...

Anyone have ANY idea what would do this?

View attachment 91711

do you have any experience with wraps?

 

[mudmedia]

I used the 3M IJ180Cv3-10 with 8519 Laminate..

Printed on a Mutoh Eco Solvent printer.. Let it sit for two days (laying out flat across the shop upstairs in the storage room (air conditioned, not humid) and then laminated 48 hours later..)

Installed 3 days later on a flat boat after cleaning with dawn dish soap, and then alcohol.. Then sealed the edges.. The boat was about a year old, no chips, hasn't ever been waxed...

Now the wrap is getting TONS of little bubbles in it and I'm about to be out $1200 bucks in materials to redo it...

Anyone have ANY idea what would do this?

View attachment 91711

Water Oxidation? Even the slightest bit to where you can not see it can cause vinyl not to stick well. Also it does not take $1200 in vinyl to do that boat.

 

[rjssigns]

Could be the Dawn soap. If you didn't get every last molecule of it off it will cause problems. I ruined a complete job many many years ago and have NEVER used it to clean since. I've used automotive paint prep products then finish with IPA ever since.

Another thing to avoid is the expensive "cloth like" paper towels. They will leave all kinds of residue on the surface. All kinds of chemicals and processing to give them that fancy feel. I use the stuff on the bottom shelf at the back of the store. The stuff you get for 49 cents a roll. Nothing in it but paper fiber.

 

[spmracing]

Water Oxidation? Even the slightest bit to where you can not see it can cause vinyl not to stick well. Also it does not take $1200 in vinyl to do that boat.

No, but after my lost time, and driving 4 hours each way..

I'm thinking vinyl failure in the laminate.. I found out its the laminate pulling off of the vinyl.. Weird...

I went out to look at it today and The vinyl is down but the laminate is lifting...

 

[Snydo]

I've seen this happen.... has the boat has been in the water after the wrap? it could be the 3M vinyl.

+1 '3M vinyl'

 

[Jester1167]

Did the vinyl get dusty before you laminated it? I bet each bubble is a dust bunny from laying out like that.

In the future you can save yourself some heartache by buying some milk crates for drying your vinyl. Put the roll of vinyl in a milk crate and unroll it making sure you have space between each roll. Put a second crate on top and elevate it off the floor. The solvents are heavier than air and will fall out the bottom drawing in fresh air and carry more solvents away and almost no dust will settle on the print.

 

[Mike Paul]

In the future you can save yourself some heartache by buying some milk crates for drying your vinyl.

You buy milk crates in Fl?
Here in Jersey they're free at every convenience store...

 

[SightLine]

Not really sure but if the lam is separating from the vinyl then either something got on the print (light dust) or a bad roll of laminate would be my guesses. We have wrapped dozens of boats over the years with that same combo printed on our solvent Mimaki with no issues. 2 things, we have never really left larger rolls of printed material sit out loose to dry. Always have just stood the roll on its end over in a corner for a day still rolled on the core we used on the takeup. Never have had any issues. Granted different inks might dry different (we run full solvent Triangle inks, not eco or lite solvent) or take longer to outgas.

One other thing, when using air release vinyl on watercraft, we always seal all edges (except up top) with 3M edge sealing tape (basically a half inch roll of 3M laminate). I don't think edge sealing is the issue here though.

 

[spmracing]

Did the vinyl get dusty before you laminated it? I bet each bubble is a dust bunny from laying out like that.

In the future you can save yourself some heartache by buying some milk crates for drying your vinyl. Put the roll of vinyl in a milk crate and unroll it making sure you have space between each roll. Put a second crate on top and elevate it off the floor. The solvents are heavier than air and will fall out the bottom drawing in fresh air and carry more solvents away and almost no dust will settle on the print.

It was the laminate material.. we have 3 drying tables so It was deffinetky not a dust issue

 

[johnnysigns]

Did it go right into the water after application?

 

[HulkSmash]

No pun intended but, Probably a install error from lack of experience.

 

[Mosh]

Dawn take WRAPS out of the way.....that can be their new commercial.

 

[TXFB.INS]

i used the 3m ij180cv3-10 with 8519 laminate..

Printed on a mutoh eco solvent printer.. Let it sit for two days (laying out flat across the shop upstairs in the storage room (air conditioned, not humid) and then laminated 48 hours later..)

installed 3 days later on a flat boat after cleaning with dawn dish soap, and then alcohol.. Then sealed the edges.. The boat was about a year old, no chips, hasn't ever been waxed...

Now the wrap is getting tons of little bubbles in it and i'm about to be out $1200 bucks in materials to redo it...

Anyone have any idea what would do this?

View attachment 91711

never want to use soap for cleaning, the only thing is tearless J&J baby shampoo, and that is if you are out of proper prep solution (rapid-prep) or a like product

What % is the alcohol you are using? hopefuly atleast a 90%

 

[Fastsigns2041]

Aren't the solvents heavier than air? So that if you have your prints flat on the table the vapor just sits on top.

 

[jfiscus]

Without seeing a photo of the final problem I am also going to go with the Dawn soap. I've never used it before, and also never seen a problem like this before. I recommend always cleaning with Alcohol (I use denatured alcohol from Ace Hardware).

However, if the laminate is lifting/seperating from the material; I have to wonder if the laminate is defective... as if your laminator operator is competent, and your installer is also competent (minus using Dawn); then they would have noticed the "bubbles' when the material was in front of them. I would say that the material sitting for a couple days would be quite sufficient to not cause any visible failures from lack of off-gassing this soon after installation.

FWIW, we've gone back to 180c-10 from 180cv3.

 

[ProWraps]

the entire thing sounds like inexperience to me.

dawn soap. no.
laying prints flat to outgas. no.
laminate failure?. no.


sounds like you just bought yourself $1200 worth of education.

 

[MikePro]

its not the dawn. would not have stuck in the first place if it was.
unless I see up-close pics of the issue, i'm inclined to believe that you simply thought you got all the air out but did not.