48' trailer - full wrap quote help!!!

[ATTTR]

I need some serious help.

I've been in my current job since March 2013. It is my first job doing large format and vehicle graphics.
I had to pretty much teach myself how to do everything. Including quote and laying out graphics for printing for trailers. I have had some input from my installer who has 20 years of installation experience. For him to have the easiest install, he told me to lay everything out in panels with 1/4" overlaps.

I have a 54" Mimaki printer. It will actually ONLY print up to 52" wide. I can't get it to print wider than that.

On a 48' trailer, that means I get 11 panels that are trim size 52" wide x 112" long (with 8" total safe overlap for top and bottom).

Is this not the best way to do this?

How does everyone do their quotes? I have a spreadsheet I use where I calculate the cost of material by the width of the roll x the length of material needed. I calc the per square foot price of the vinyl, laminate (if applicable) and mask. Then double the cost of the material. Then I add my time after that.

My company will not pay for any type of quoting software, so I do everything manually.

Now that a new company has bought us out, and has never had a graphics department or any experience outside of outsourcing completed material, they are questioning everything I do, how I do it and why I do it that way. They've cut me from full time to part time 28 hours a week. I think they are going to eliminate me completely. (All this after promising me the world...)

(Ha - so if anyone needs a graphic designer in the Detroit area...)

So if anyone has any solid advice and tips, I'd be forever grateful.

Thanks!

 

[reQ]

1) Always count materials USED, not materials end up on the surface. For example on 54x90 inch piece, you would have to use 60x96 inch piece of material. So make sure you include "waste" in the price.
2) Yes, lay it out with vertical panels. On trailers that the easy way.
3) What kind of trailer? Does it have rivets or no? If yes, trailer with rivets will cost a bit more to wrap, since it take time to deal with rivets (use rollepro or whatever comfortable for installer)

 

[SightLine]

I'd also personally say that 1/4" overlap is a bit on the slim side. We generally do 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch overlaps. 8" of top/bottom bleed on a trailer is massive overkill. Most trailer sides are a perfect rectangle. We give about 2 inches bleed total on them. Also as reQ said, you quote material based on the material you run through the printer and laminator, not the material that actually ends up being applied. We also add in another 10% to account for a small amount of waste webbing the printer and laminator and gaps between panels, etc.

 

[ATTTR]

I don't have to deal with rivets or anything like that. I am strictly design and print.

I always use the width of the entire roll. So 54" by whatever the length.

1/4" overlap and 4" on top and bottom are per my installer... We usually do a lot of corrugated trailer sides.

 

[reQ]

I don't have to deal with rivets or anything like that. I am strictly design and print.

You asked how to quote. We told you. Its not only about design and print. There is a "life" after design and print. If things would be that easy, every "graphic designer" would be rich.

 

[2B]

if your new boss is questioning your pricing. there are a couple different ways to check.

• http://www.signwritersusa.com/guides.html
• internet - search for people selling like products

• http://thesignexpert.com/

more accurately, if the bosses are questioning your pricing then they already have an idea of what the pricing should be.
Have them provide said prices and go with that.

 

[TimToad]

So are you quoting on the entire job start to finish including installation or not?

When and who taught you to double your material costs? Maybe I'm missing out on a new trend.

I've been at this 35 years and I've never heard of many folks except gougers doubling material costs INCLUDING waste AND factoring in labor on top of that. I can see 1.5x to 1.75x at the very most and making sure shipping costs for materials are full covered, but much above that and that could be pricing you out of lots of jobs when bidding against shops doing the traditional 1.5-1.75x markup.

Also, why would you premask big laminated panels going on semi trailer sides? I for one wouldn't want the panels delivered to me like that to install. Can you imagine trying to pull off premask from both sides of a fully wrapped 48' trailer?

Lastly, is all this homework and research for your own benefit or for the tools who are about to can you?

 

[LeLuni]

Now that a new company has bought us out, and has never had a graphics department or any experience outside of outsourcing completed material, they are questioning everything I do, how I do it and why I do it that way. They've cut me from full time to part time 28 hours a week. I think they are going to eliminate me completely. (All this after promising me the world...)

(Ha - so if anyone needs a graphic designer in the Detroit area...)

Well, this is terribly depressing... I think I recall your post a few months back regarding some optimism about this outside company coming in.

I wonder how they came up with that 28 hour number? The media pundits tell me that employers aren't actually trying to work around the latest government health scheme, so gee, you must be the only one (eyes rolling).

In all seriousness, I suggest you get an online design portfolio immediately and start pounding the pavement. Put the link in your profile here as well. There is a lot of money to be made in freelance these days, which might be one of the few positives of the increased government hands in employers' business.

You need to be out of your current situation within a couple weeks.

 

[TimToad]

Well, this is terribly depressing... I think I recall your post a few months back regarding some optimism about this outside company coming in.

I wonder how they came up with that 28 hour number? The media pundits tell me that employers aren't actually trying to work around the latest government health scheme, so gee, you must be the only one (eyes rolling).

In all seriousness, I suggest you get an online design portfolio immediately and start pounding the pavement. Put the link in your profile here as well. There is a lot of money to be made in freelance these days, which might be one of the few positives of the increased government hands in employers' business.

You need to be out of your current situation within a couple weeks.

Do we even know if the company has more than 50 employees?

Considering the government is actually subsidizing small businesses under 25 employees who offer healthcare, I'm sensing that there must be another reason besides Obamacare they are only offering 28 hours per week. Maybe that's all the workload there is and the OP has been skating by getting 40 by stretching his work out for all these years. Or they are going in a different direction completely. They could have just canned him the day they took over.

It figures that someone from one of the states that consumes far more welfare and government spending than it sends taxes in for would be blaming government for a business making its own decisions on hiring practices and hours offered. Your state gets $1.92 in welfare and government spending from D.C. for every $1.00 it sends to D.C., so instead of criticizing, you might actually want to be thanking the rest of us for putting up with the drain your state is on the Treasury.

I thought all you conservatives were about the "free market" and letting business decide for itself how to treat employees?

Big or small, American businesses enjoy some of the lowest tax rates, largest number of deductions and credits, etc. of any industrialized country on earth. Only an intellectually dishonest or ignorant person would look at their tax return AFTER all of your deductions, credits, exemptions, etc. are applied and think that they were being gouged by the "guvmint".

So which is it, the company should be allowed to set its own rules, or we should have some protections for workers rights?

 

[ATTTR]

So are you quoting on the entire job start to finish including installation or not?

When and who taught you to double your material costs? Maybe I'm missing out on a new trend.

I've been at this 35 years and I've never heard of many folks except gougers doubling material costs INCLUDING waste AND factoring in labor on top of that. I can see 1.5x to 1.75x at the very most and making sure shipping costs for materials are full covered, but much above that and that could be pricing you out of lots of jobs when bidding against shops doing the traditional 1.5-1.75x markup.

Also, why would you premask big laminated panels going on semi trailer sides? I for one wouldn't want the panels delivered to me like that to install. Can you imagine trying to pull off premask from both sides of a fully wrapped 48' trailer?

Lastly, is all this homework and research for your own benefit or for the tools who are about to can you?

When I came into this position, I had NO large graphics printing/cutting/layout experience. I am a graphic designer for small print, magazine ads, brochures, flyers, web, etc... , pure and simple. I taught myself the machines for the most part, as well as the software to run them. I came up with a manual quoting system and was told by the boss to double the cost of material when quoting a price.
Add to that, my approximate hours of design/labor time (recreating an image, logo, layout, etc... how ever possible when no graphic file can be supplied.) Sometimes that takes hours to recreate to make sure it everything matches and lines up. We charge $85 an hour for my labor rate.

Installation is a separate charge and I have NOTHING to do with that portion of quoting.
All my questions are for my benefit to perform my job better.

Presmasking a big job - my installer requested premask.

PS - I am female. I was hired partly because of that and my looks for the sales part of the job...

 

[J Hill Designs]

I, for one, am a firm believer in 'double your material costs'

 

[Mosh]

I lay trailer out on 48" wide panels with 1" overlap. Trailers, for the most part, are made with 48" wide panels, so there is a natural seam every 48".

 

[ATTTR]

You asked how to quote. We told you. Its not only about design and print. There is a "life" after design and print. If things would be that easy, every "graphic designer" would be rich.

I understand that, but I don't do installs. Installs and quotes are handled by someone else.
Why would that affect MY quoting for printing and designing?


No need for sarcasm, I was stating a fact.
My apologies for not stating clearly I do not handle installs or install quoting.
My questions were based strictly on material.

 

[DesireeM]

I, for one, am a firm believer in 'double your material costs'

It's a good idea depending on the reasons why. I didn't see any mention in OP's post about calculating for overhead costs - rent, heat, electricity, building and vehicle maintenance etc etc.... So if doubling material costs covers that then yes. Just as long as it's considered. Shops can lose a lot of money for not remembering to factor in the "costs of running a business"

 

[J Hill Designs]

It's a good idea depending on the reasons why. I didn't see any mention in OP's post about calculating for overhead costs - rent, heat, electricity, building and vehicle maintenance etc etc.... So if doubling material costs covers that then yes. Just as long as it's considered. Shops can lose a lot of money for not remembering to factor in the "costs of running a business"

double materials, + time involved (at shop rate, which has overhead, etc calc'ed in)

 

[DesireeM]

Kudos for trying to upgrade your knowledge and skill in this industry. There's nothing wrong with seeking out advice in order to do your job better. I am a graphic designer, also female and was kind of thrown into this industry as well. Little to no training in sign fabrication, installation, quoting, running printers and their software, cutters and vinyl decals wraps etc...signs101 was a huge help.

My advice - don't just find out what to do and how - make sure you fully understand WHY it's done that way. So then if anyone questions your methods you have logic and facts to back you up. (For example - suppliers tell you to use cast vinyl for wraps but do you know WHY you should use it? Do you know what the difference is between cast and calendered?.....you may very well know..this is just an example)

If you aren't confident in the reasons why you do things and aren't able to prove to your bosses why it's the best, most efficient and cost effective way to do so then they won't have confidence in your ability to do your job. I can certainly understand why they may have doubts about your ability to run a whole department. I know from experience that two years into it I still had a TON to learn - and my position includes literally everything at this business except fabrication and installation.

Hopefully they don't eliminate you and you have a chance to further your experience in this area. I'm sure though, even with your current experience you would be an asset to another sign company. You may not have the experience to run the show but that comes with time and effort, which you seem willing to give.

 

[Gino]

For me, this isn't the section for openly discussing pricing of any sorts, but it does sound like your days are numbered there. I don't know why a company of the size you're describing is letting the quoting up to you, especially if you don't know how to do it. If they're going back and micro managing, then they are wasting more time, then just doing it themselves. Either they want a machine which runs by itself or they want to do it.... themselves. Ya can't have both.

I would ask them for a meeting to discuss your future with the company. Point blank ask them if they are grooming you to do quoting, plus the things you already do ?? I imagine the 28 hours comes in at 4.... 7 hour days. Perhaps, they don't have to pay full benefits or whatever, but again, this isn't the place to be discussing politics and what states is better for this or that.

Asking here how to quote is not going to help you. Take it into the pricing section where outsiders cannot see it. You'll have.... or should have much better luck there.

Doubling, 1 and a halving or quadrupling..... here is not the place.


We generally do 50" wide with 1/4" to 1/2 overlaps. Laminate them, but we don't add application tape to it, other than for hinging or something.

 

[ATTTR]

For me, this isn't the section for openly discussing pricing of any sorts, but it does sound like your days are numbered there. I don't know why a company of the size you're describing is letting the quoting up to you, especially if you don't know how to do it. If they're going back and micro managing, then they are wasting more time, then just doing it themselves. Either they want a machine which runs by itself or they want to do it.... themselves. Ya can't have both.

I would ask them for a meeting to discuss your future with the company. Point blank ask them if they are grooming you to do quoting, plus the things you already do ?? I imagine the 28 hours comes in at 4.... 7 hour days. Perhaps, they don't have to pay full benefits or whatever, but again, this isn't the place to be discussing politics and what states is better for this or that.

Asking here how to quote is not going to help you. Take it into the pricing section where outsiders cannot see it. You'll have.... or should have much better luck there.

Doubling, 1 and a halving or quadrupling..... here is not the place.


We generally do 50" wide with 1/4" to 1/2 overlaps. Laminate them, but we don't add application tape to it, other than for hinging or something.

Gino, Unfortunately I don't have access to the pricing forum. And company won't pay for a premium subscription and I can't afford it on my own now.

 

[Gino]

Gino, Unfortunately I don't have access to the pricing forum. And company won't pay for a premium subscription and I can't afford it on my own now.

There is a free Marketing and Pricing section here in the 'Freebie' section. It doesn't cost a single penny. You're here a year and a a half. You should know this.

Again, in order to prove yourself to your boss[es], you need to know how to get around. Not just on the shop floor, but in your software and evidently accounting. However, along with that, comes being observant. Sure, everyone forgets something or misses something here or there, but between your scenarios and your bosses actions, this place of yours is beginning to sound like a circus. I'd bail now, while you still can get out.

 

[ATTTR]

There is a free Marketing and Pricing section here in the 'Freebie' section. It doesn't cost a single penny. You're here a year and a a half. You should know this.

Again, in order to prove yourself to your boss[es], you need to know how to get around. Not just on the shop floor, but in your software and evidently accounting. However, along with that, comes being observant. Sure, everyone forgets something or misses something here or there, but between your scenarios and your bosses actions, this place of yours is beginning to sound like a circus. I'd bail now, while you still can get out.

Okay, hold on a second... First you don't think I should post about quoting in this section because of customers knowing about pricing tactics, now you tell me to use the free section, which is still open to everyone???
Gino, just because I have been here a year and a half does not mean I live on the boards and memorize every little thing. Your comment is unfair and uncalled for. I am actually here very little, I don't always get a chance to check back as quickly as I'd like sometimes because they "frown" on me being on the internet. When I went to look for the pricing section, I found the one that was premium. Maybe you could have shared the link with me in the first place, ya know, just because? *throws hands in the air*

As for the circus, bosses and job, I was let go last week because they are going to sell off the equipment and outsource the work to a signshop who employs the guy I replaced, who stole from the company, took kick-backs, didn't bring in any new customers or $$ and couldn't measure in sixteenths to save his life, and applied graphics like a 5 year old slapping stickers on their bedroom wall and cost the company thousands of dollars in failed applications and screwed up graphics. The new bosses don't understand the department and don't want to deal with it anymore. But I'm glad to be gone. I won't miss the chauvinism and belittling comments. I've been looking for a new job for months and this just makes it that much easier to concentrate on and go to interviews.