A bridge that you may cross

[jkdbjj]

Some of you, have crossed this bridge already in your sign career. Not that it only pertains to sign companies, but it shall for this thread.

It isn't long into a new sign companies adventure, where it seems amazing to be getting calls, emails, referrals, and the orders seem to be coming from everywhere. Let's face it, it's exciting!
It must stand to reason, along with this, is the pain of not being able to handle the volume, or perhaps you feel you just aren't making the money that matches your effort. That is what this thread is about.

The bridge is being able to say to a new potential customer that you are two, three, even four weeks out. There are dozens, if not hundreds of companies that fear doing this, only because they don't know any better. The reality is they have been so busy keeping up and getting it done, they lose sight that they might be abusing themselves, becoming a slave so to speak.

With that said, you can't just walk across that bridge haphazardly and think all will be well, and just start telling anyone who contacts you, sorry I am 3 weeks out. You'll definitely lose some customers.

My advice is to spend more attention on due dates, asking customers when they "really" need it. Also, don't be afraid of rush charges, but you better be willing to stay late to get it done, or pay someone to stay late, hence the extra rush fee. It needs to be an honest fee, because if you can really knock it out in the normal business day, then the customer is just going to be lucky.

Now, I know some of you reading this, will say, "it just doesn't work that way in my town". Customers always need it right now!
This is just fear talking, and yes there are always customers that are like that.
What I am saying, is in the mix of all these orders, focus on the better customers, you should be charging a good premium with them, and they will most likely be better planned and have more time for their projects.

These are the customers you want to schedule first, and then fit all the "have to have now people" as you can, and if they stay great, if they don't, that's OK too. It just opens up some room to really focus on your quality customers. This also allows you time to look closer at your quality customers, to see if there is more work there, or perhaps similar companies that you can market too.

To sum it up, you may be a company that says yes to everybody right now, but believe me that can quickly get old, and really not make you the kind of money you might imagine. By stepping back, and really focusing in on your goals, you can have a more manageable work day and still be profitable, if not more profitable than trying to please everyone.

 

[Gino]

Guess I don't catch your drift. If you're talking about growing pains and you don't want to expand as your business is promising, then you are in your own way of growing.

I've always said 'YES' to everything and never promised anything immediately. Even for things I didn't know how to make or what to do, I still said, two weeks. Then I'd learn everything I could about that and fulfill their deadline of two weeks.

At our shop, we are very accustomed to having orders take a few weeks to a few months from start to completion. You tell these people exactly that and I promise you, they will understand if you and your product are truly worthwhile of the wait.

As you take on more and more customers and your backlog reaches 2,3 or more months, then you need to look into another employee or two and maybe more or better equipment. If you are a one or two man shop, odds are you're only gonna have 60 or so billing hours, let alone work hours. There is always gonna be down time and time you can't charge for. As you take on more employees, your backlog becomes shorter and you have more hands in on the jobs.

So, if you can't tell or get people to wait, you definitely have to take on help....... or just turn them away.

This is also the time to raise your prices. If you are getting busier than sh!t, possibly, you are working too cheap and need to step up your game in the price world. If you can make $2,000 or $3,000 more a week and work the same hours and you lose a few small customers.... so what ?? In the long run, you're making more money. Is that what you want or do you want to be the most used shop in the community ??

 

[James Burke]

Here's an idea....put them on a sliding price scale when it comes to due dates. Charge the "normal" price for something you need to do three or four weeks out, and then jack up the prices for those who want it now. When it comes to money, most people will keep their expectations realistic if they can save a few bucks.

Outsource as needed.


JB

 

[threeputt]

My take on this idea from the original poster is that, don't put yourself in the grave, miss out on important family matters, etc. trying to get out all the work that you've promised.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but that's the take I got on his post.

I've been there and it's certainly true you can become real bad at saying "no" or at least "no" to impossibly short deadlines.

Half the time the so-called deadlines aren't even that. They're just some date the client picked out of the air so he's comfortable with the idea that when he finally gets around to picking up the finished work...it'll be ready.

We have a sign in our showroom telling people the difference between what we call due dates and what we call deadlines.

One is an approximate and one is a "can not miss" deadline. The sign even states that if the work must be done by a specific date (a true deadline) that they are to inform us of it ahead of time.

It further states that we may elect to decline the work if we don't think we can positively deliver on or before that date.

 

[jkdbjj]

From visiting other businesses, I find one common theme among businesses. The common theme is two fold:
One side you have businesses that have it together, come in at 8am leave at 5pm. Bills are paid, customers are happy, life moves on.
The other side you have businesses that are always in panic mode, moral is a bit unpredictable, and being organized is a word that doesn't really exist.

The OP, attempts to address one of the bridges that keeps the two themes separate. I realize there are other reasons, but this one topic is a big one for many of the businesses I visit. They don't EVER go home at 5pm (or whatever a decent shift is), they have personal relationships being sacrificed, they aren't making the money you'd think, and they really don't know what the problem is.

Anyway, just thought I would share my thoughts for anyone that lurks and reads these forums, wondering about some of these topics.

Thanks for the additional post!

 

[threeputt]

On a personal note, this fool lost his first marriage, missed a lot of his kid's growing up, etc......all because of his stubborn refusal to call it quits at 5:00pm.

Now I'm remarried (15 years now) to a girl who gets all the attention she deserves. We've worked together in this business, (each have our separate roles) for those same 15 years. We have two other full time employees. We turn the lights out a 5:00pm. No weekends.

I go home, make her a drink, do the same for myself and that's that. Hit it hard again the next day.

I truly feel for those shop owners who are in a perpetual state of "panic" as you put it. Been there, done that.

That's a health wrecker for sure. And relationship wrecker.

 

[jkdbjj]

Well I figure this website, is suppose to be here for learning.
Often times it is reactive in its information, which is for sure helping many many sign people, including myself.
So, rather than be reactive, I wanted to post something that I indeed went through, and am starting to come out across the other end of the bridge, marriage still in tact, etc...

I thank God for the many blessings I have, and by chance some person visiting this website looking for advice, I hope they find this comforting to know others go through the same crap.

It would be nice for more people more knowledgeable than I, to post proactive threads about businesses, experience, and advice. Not in an arrogant way, but things they know others will face, and might want to see how others got through it.

Time to go home, it's 6:20

 

[visual800]

IF I could go back and start again I would make these changes:

1-DO NOT let someone get you all wrapped up in NOW! I NEED IT NOW! This is a BS reason these days for everything. NOW! Now costs people alot more now than it did back then.

2-Dont take on too much and dont be afraid to stretch the due sat about 1 week past. If you know a sign is gonna take you 3 days to complete tell them 1 week. Dont back yourself in a corner

3-DO NOT work 24/7. 7 days per week. I did this back when I first started in the 80s and it wore me out. We all did it in the beginning. 8-5 I am not open and take and make phones calls. Now sure I may get bored and do some layouts or something but I dont do that often

4- You are already doin what you love, dont let it abuse YOU!

 

[Speedsterbeast]

I agree in the "under-promise and over-deliver" due dates for clients. Always give a little extra, even if only by a day. Also, it does sound suspiciously like your rates are too low. If you have that much work, and are backlogged for more than a week, you should be making some pretty good money.
I worked until 12:30 am last night to get work done for a client who needed it this morning. Didn't mind one bit. Going to run a few errands and do some grocery shopping this morning. I earned it last night. Balance is the key to happiness.

 

[anotherdog]

The hardest thing to say is "no". After the first couple of years getting the business into the black, the habit of saying "yes, now whats the question?" was deeply ingrained.

It was a matter of pride for me to say I was working 14-16 hour days and not taking a single day off for months.

Then a week came when all things lined up and I had nothing to do for a couple of days. I literally went cold turkey. I had the sweats, I couldn't sleep...what if the phone never rang again?

Lesson learned, I turn 50 this year. I have sacrificed a lot of years to the business, Time for some balance. I agree with the many posters about balance. I want to be enjoying this business for the next 20 years (god knows I can't afford to retire).

Whether you decide to grow an empire or run a mom and pop business, the one thing you spend that you can never make back is time.

 

[Hicalibersigns]

This is also the time to raise your prices. If you are getting busier than sh!t, possibly, you are working too cheap and need to step up your game in the price world. If you can make $2,000 or $3,000 more a week and work the same hours and you lose a few small customers.... so what ?? In the long run, you're making more money. Is that what you want or do you want to be the most used shop in the community ??

There you go. I was raised in a family retail jewelry business. We were a custom shop, so almost everything that went out the door involved shop time. My dad always said "if you don't have some customers walking away because they think you are too high, then you aren't charging enough."

It's a simple rule of thumb, but a good one.

 

[HulkSmash]

Pick and choose.

I turn down 1 yard signs, and 500 b/cs all the time. No time for that.

We don't turn down work that generates money. We would just work all night if we had to.
Hire someone who's job is to just print all day, that way you can concentrate on the finishing work...
quotes, invoices.. etc.

I on average spend 4 hrs a day on quotes..
you'll be surprised how much that helps..for that 1 extra hand.

 

[Gino]

Pick and choose.

I turn down 1 yard signs, and 500 b/cs all the time. No time for that.

We don't turn down work that generates money. We would just work all night if we had to.
Hire someone who's job is to just print all day, that way you can concentrate on the finishing work...
quotes, invoices.. etc.

I on average spend 4 hrs a day on quotes..
you'll be surprised how much that helps..for that 1 extra hand.

Yeah, but ya spend 7 hours a day at this place.

 

[Caitlin]

I think this is a really interesting discussion and helpful to see how others feel. Before I started working at this sign shop I was working in a different field which I had earned my degree in. I was working in a private consulting firm in a field which is largely public service and was the sole employee and had to be basically on top of everything. The last thing I would do at night and first thing in the morning was check my e-mail, paranoid I had missed something overnight. I was working on and off every day from early morning to midnight or later, I would spend months on one project and still not enough to be done. it drove me NUTS and nearly into a nervous breakdown because that sort of schedule just isn't for me. Finally I listened to my friends and family who were saying I needed to move on, it wasn't a healthy situation.

Now one of my favourite parts of this job here is that I work 8:30-4:30, I work on one task (or several) and then they are done and it's on to something new. There are still struggles but as long as I face it they are GONE. And it gets easier and easier the more I do and more I learn. I'm just glad I didn't end up stuck in that situation for much longer. Sometimes it isn't always about what you are the most educated in but what you enjoy and what you feel the most comfortable doing.

Yikes this is getting long. Just wanted to say I'm glad to see this discussion, having seen both sides!

 

[SD&F]

In all things in life there are struggles and we all deal with them differently depending on where we are in our life. The sign business is a fun and frustrating business. I try and always keep my head on straight. I find that everyone needs their sign tomorrow and thats just too bad. I am here to give you a quality custom sign and you are not gonna push me to do it quckly. I take on every job that makes me a fair profit, but not stuff that someone can do better because it is their expertise(banners, real estate markers...etc). I try an balance and NEVER FORGET what is important in life. I am here to serve my customers and my employees here at work. I am not here when I am serving my family/friends...though I do check my emails. We grow, we learn.

 

[jkdbjj]

I think this is a really interesting discussion and helpful to see how others feel. Before I started working at this sign shop I was working in a different field which I had earned my degree in. I was working in a private consulting firm in a field which is largely public service and was the sole employee and had to be basically on top of everything. The last thing I would do at night and first thing in the morning was check my e-mail, paranoid I had missed something overnight. I was working on and off every day from early morning to midnight or later, I would spend months on one project and still not enough to be done. it drove me NUTS and nearly into a nervous breakdown because that sort of schedule just isn't for me. Finally I listened to my friends and family who were saying I needed to move on, it wasn't a healthy situation.

Now one of my favourite parts of this job here is that I work 8:30-4:30, I work on one task (or several) and then they are done and it's on to something new. There are still struggles but as long as I face it they are GONE. And it gets easier and easier the more I do and more I learn. I'm just glad I didn't end up stuck in that situation for much longer. Sometimes it isn't always about what you are the most educated in but what you enjoy and what you feel the most comfortable doing.

Yikes this is getting long. Just wanted to say I'm glad to see this discussion, having seen both sides!

Thanks for sharing. I recently have pulled out of that kind of situation myself.
Taking on projects that were so large, that the rest of my life was eclipsed by these projects.
Now, I did ask for those projects, as I wanted to get more experience managing larger projects, and I am grateful that I got them. I just had no idea how time consuming they could become.

I'm glad you got out and found some peace in your life. I have a friend, who spent 10 years working on a law degree, became a lawyer, and one day called and said he quit, cause he wasn't happy and wanted to become a veterinarian. I had no clue. Anyway, he did the same as you.

I also apparently got mixed comments about making a thread like this, apparently it is too emotional or soft for some people. Not that I should care, but it is weird to hear someone bash a thread that was intended to just offer help if anyone wanted it.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

 

[HulkSmash]

Yeah, but ya spend 7 hours a day at this place.

gino, you spend 14 if i spend 7

but seriously, this is where i come inbetween quotes....
oh yeah, and engadget

 

[WeekendDirectionals]

Eco 101

If one is that busy, isn't the best move to raise prices, so you make more for what you are doing? Or add production capability, via adding staff or subbing out work?

 

[mark galoob]

it is a good thread...

i have found with myself that everytime i try to grow, i experience "growing pains" that i never knew would come up. just hiring 1 additional employee, caused sever growing pains of all kinds. i have also watched my good friend and his sign shop and he has 15 employees, and faces just huge monthly costs just to pay his employees. he has been open for 3 yrs now and they still dont operate at a profit. but he has deep pockets and can sit there for several more years and spend someone elses money to keep a business open that isnt generating profit. i have another friend that does the job of 3 people, and works 15 hr days every day, and makes decent money, but never sees his family.

mark galoob

 

[parrott]

If one is that busy, isn't the best move to raise prices, so you make more for what you are doing? Or add production capability, via adding staff or subbing out work?

This is the correct answer.