Accubend returns didn't work

[Stormy Conner]

Since our Accubend doesn't work for this one big job with several clouds and letters my boss outsourced the bending to another sign company. Since I didn't really have any experience with creating the file all I could send them was the .eps file of the same vector I used to cut the backs on our router. The person said that was fine then came back saying something about open nodes but really don't understand how that could happen. Honestly my knowledge of Accubend is pretty low since ours has really never worked. I had to teach myself about the router with some help from Computerized Cutters. They then cleaned up the .EPS files sent me a proof. Everything looked ok on the proof and then they bent the letters. But nothing is fitting. Most of it is not even long enough to fit around the backs. I don't know what could have happened. Anyone have any clue? I have the boss on my back about this but I don't know what could have happened, or what to do about it.

 

[JBurton]

Ok, you're in a pickle, and I'm somewhat dumbfounded that you'd order half of the components and manufacturer the other half and expect them to fit, just to get that out of the way.

The problem is likely with whatever original file you sent to the bender as a proof. They probably jacked around to make the letters feed through the bender easily, which in turn will stop them from working. They also likely scaled your art in another program to clean it up as well, then exported their own eps for the accubend. You'll need to ask them to the EPS they utilized for their bender, import it into your software you're using for CNC layout, and recut all the backs. I'd start with one to verify fit will be good, obviously. Alternatively, you could order backs and faces now from the company that bent the returns, but that is probably a waste of money since you have a router.
You'd ought to get on the horn with computerized cutters when this is over and nail down the issues with your files for the bender. The manual is only so helpful, a good deal of my knowledge has come from trial and error, but my fabricator tweaks the hell out of some parts and I'd never know it shy of him bragging...

 

[Stormy Conner]

Ok, you're in a pickle, and I'm somewhat dumbfounded that you'd order half of the components and manufacturer the other half and expect them to fit, just to get that out of the way.

The problem is likely with whatever original file you sent to the bender as a proof. They probably jacked around to make the letters feed through the bender easily, which in turn will stop them from working. They also likely scaled your art in another program to clean it up as well, then exported their own eps for the accubend. You'll need to ask them to the EPS they utilized for their bender, import it into your software you're using for CNC layout, and recut all the backs. I'd start with one to verify fit will be good, obviously. Alternatively, you could order backs and faces now from the company that bent the returns, but that is probably a waste of money since you have a router.
You'd ought to get on the horn with computerized cutters when this is over and nail down the issues with your files for the bender. The manual is only so helpful, a good deal of my knowledge has come from trial and error, but my fabricator tweaks the hell out of some parts and I'd never know it shy of him bragging...

Yeah I don't know why they wanted me to do that either when they have been doing by hand up till now. I appreciate your input on this I am just confused. I think they are doing it by hand now just not happy about it. My fault I guess.

 

[Stormy Conner]

Ok, you're in a pickle, and I'm somewhat dumbfounded that you'd order half of the components and manufacturer the other half and expect them to fit, just to get that out of the way.

The problem is likely with whatever original file you sent to the bender as a proof. They probably jacked around to make the letters feed through the bender easily, which in turn will stop them from working. They also likely scaled your art in another program to clean it up as well, then exported their own eps for the accubend. You'll need to ask them to the EPS they utilized for their bender, import it into your software you're using for CNC layout, and recut all the backs. I'd start with one to verify fit will be good, obviously. Alternatively, you could order backs and faces now from the company that bent the returns, but that is probably a waste of money since you have a router.
You'd ought to get on the horn with computerized cutters when this is over and nail down the issues with your files for the bender. The manual is only so helpful, a good deal of my knowledge has come from trial and error, but my fabricator tweaks the hell out of some parts and I'd never know it shy of him bragging...

From what you are saying if we ever get our Accubend to work (probably won't though) we should clean up the file set it for bending then you use that same file for backs then use it for faces. That should be the order everything is done in. This is information I didn't know and will be very helpful in future. Our guys have always bent them by hand so they needed the backs first. I didn't find out about us sending it off for bending until after the backs were cut and the faces were being trimcapped. So even if I had used our Accubend its likely the I would have had to tweak the art to work in the bender and it wouldn't have fit anyway. Ugh I really wish I had more training.

 

[JBurton]

Yeah, as long as you boss is understanding, this is all training. Just an expensive way to go about it...
What model of accubend do you have? The process is basically the same for all of them as far as prepping files. Export EPS for enroute, import that, hit F2 for the placement dialogue box, move it to x2 y2, select it all, go into 'node mode', make sure each part has a 'start point' (right click on any given node, select 'make start point'), then go back to select mode, select everything, do an 'auto cleanup' (it the bottom option on one of the file, edit, draw, drop downs), then export as a dxf.
When loading files at the bender, after you select the file, it says something like 'select contours' and displays a blank screen. You have to click the button that says 'select contours', otherwise you think you've done it wrong, and repeat the above steps 15 times until you realize you've probably already done it right once if not more times.

 

[Stormy Conner]

Its a 410. I think I remember that part about thinking you had done it wrong until you hit select contours when i first tried to learn it before the computer gave out.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

If you use the same file to cut your faces that you do to cut the backs, it's pretty much guaranteed the faces won't fit.
The faces should be larger that the backs- even if doing the return bending by hand.
If you care to know, here's the process:
- The original file/size is what you cut your faces from.
- Copy/paste that original, and inline it .125 (1/4" total larger) or .15625" (5/16" total larger). Some people prefer the larger size so the faces have some "play".
- Discard the original from the copy/paste and keep the inline.
- Place power/mounting holes on the inlined shape (we do this before cutting and let the CNC handle the job of drilling holes, then we don't have to create mounting patterns by hand) and cut the backers from that.
- Make sure your bender is accounting for the tool diameter your CNC has used (can't tell you where that is input, as we don't run an Accubend).
- Our bender requires the bending file get an .03" outline for some reason I've never understood. It also requires arc lengths under 60°, so that has to be accounted for (in our case, again, not familiar with Accubend's requirements). Our bender also requires a specific version of DXF file. For those specifics, you should really contact Accubend if no one here can offer you further guidance.

 

[Stormy Conner]

If you use the same file to cut your faces that you do to cut the backs, it's pretty much guaranteed the faces won't fit.
The faces should be larger that the backs- even if doing the return bending by hand.
If you care to know, here's the process:
- The original file/size is what you cut your faces from.
- Copy/paste that original, and inline it .125 (1/4" total larger) or .15625" (5/16" total larger). Some people prefer the larger size so the faces have some "play".
- Discard the original from the copy/paste and keep the inline.
- Place power/mounting holes on the inlined shape (we do this before cutting and let the CNC handle the job of drilling holes, then we don't have to create mounting patterns by hand) and cut the backers from that.
- Make sure your bender is accounting for the tool diameter your CNC has used (can't tell you where that is input, as we don't run an Accubend).
- Our bender requires the bending file get an .03" outline for some reason I've never understood. It also requires arc lengths under 60°, so that has to be accounted for (in our case, again, not familiar with Accubend's requirements). Our bender also requires a specific version of DXF file. For those specifics, you should really contact Accubend if no one here can offer you further guidance.

sorry i didn't make myself very clear I do know to make the faces bigger. I mostly meant the shape. And it doesn't look as if we will ever get our bender working. The hardrive is shot to the computer is shot and even if we got another computer that runs XP can't get the software. We will just do it by hand like we have been. Thanks for your help.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

sorry i didn't make myself very clear I do know to make the faces bigger. I mostly meant the shape. And it doesn't look as if we will ever get our bender working. The hardrive is shot to the computer is shot and even if we got another computer that runs XP can't get the software. We will just do it by hand like we have been. Thanks for your help.

Apologies. I must have misunderstood the original post.
Good luck. Does Accubend's current software not support the model you have? It might be worth upgrading- depending on the quantity you're producing. I know we'd be boned without a bender.

 

[JBurton]

My accubend runs off a crappy little laptop running windows 10, I see no reason they can't give you the files to set up a new pc. If y'all really don't want to mess with it, how much does you boss want for it?

 

[Ryze Signs]

I've had people wat me to only bend them returns and then they make everything else. I won't do that anymore. The more parts of the sign I build the better I can control the quality.

 

[Bxtr]

We have an Accubend Freedom, there was a learning curve to setting up the files. We keep a binder to spell it all out so we don't have to rely on one person to take care of all the channel letter jobs. I would contact CCI, they should be able to provide a new computer to run your machine. As well as training on how to setup your files correctly, then do a little trial and error on 1 letter until you get everything correct and apply that out to all jobs.
To keep all of it in-house and let the machine bend the returns will pay for the computer in saved labor alone. We had our IT take the original CCI laptop and max out the RAM and put a SSD to help increase the speed. That has helped immensely.

 

[Modern LED]

I'm thinking about purchasing an accubend freedom with the trimcap option. 30k when all in. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this machine?

 

[JBurton]

I'm thinking about purchasing an accubend freedom with the trimcap option. 30k when all in. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this machine?

I have one, we used to bend them by hand, it is definitely faster...
Does it replace an employee? No, someone has to babysit the machine so it doesn't foul up a return
Is it dummy proof? No, the letters must be set up just so in the software, so maybe an hours worth of work depending on how many letters are in your sign. Learning all of the little things to avoid or include in your vector path can be a long process.
The bender software itself is janky, click these buttons in this order or you'll get an error that says 'you should never get this error, but if you do, restart the program'. I don't believe it's ever been updated once they got something functional put together, I could be wrong.
Additionally, probably half of the machine is made from 1/2" pvc... Kinda frustrating that they cut corners to build this thing and still charge what they do.
Trimcap, I did not get that option, I'd love to hear feedback myself.
The machine does waste 6-8" of coil with every letter. Not the end of the world, but cents make dollars, eventually this cost is not insignificant.
There are at least two techs, one is quick to give solutions with no explanation, these may or may not work, as he may or may not understand the issue. The other tech we've worked with is super helpful, listens and asks questions, then provides an explanation on solution. Overall good tech support if you call in, emails will take longer to get responses (this is basically true with everything though)
It's tedious as f*ck, you or your employee will be listening to this thing punch/roll/punch/roll/punch/roll/punch/roll/bend repeat, for hours. At one point, my new fabricator was complaining that it was the worst part of his job... like he would rather quit.
Overall I don't regret the purchase, it's good to get your feet wet with a bender, without taking out a loan for something as expensive as a house, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Modern LED]

Thank you for your response. How old is your accubend freedom? Is it really that loud? I viewed an online video and it didn't seem that loud? Where is your shop?

 

[JBurton]

It's not loud, but it's repetitive, and therefore tedious, or maybe the word is annoying. We got ours at the end of 2022, it's probably only had 20 coils put through it. It's definitely faster than a man, especially since we were using old software to generate returns that could be cut on the cnc, then bent by hand, which tied up the cnc during cutting, then tied up a man to form. This machine does both at the same time. An old timer that has done nothing but channel letters with a rouff knotcher is probably faster, but at the least anybody can run one of these after a 15 minute crash course.
I'm in central Arkansas.
We are about to fire it up, if you want a video of how loud ours is in a concrete building, I could shoot a video of it.

 

[Bxtr]

Hey Modern,

We went from not being able to compete with other shops in town, to getting quite a few jobs through the machine. Our guy put two sets of channel letters through our Accubend in one less than one day while being able to run other equipment in the shop. I wish the trim cap option was available when we got ours, that part is the most dreaded by the guys here. Like mentioned before, the learning curve is steep, we don't touch anything less than 10"H and the stroke has to be at least 2" Just make sure to proof your jobs with how the actual radius, otherwise you may get some upset customers. We still outsource them from time to time if we are too busy but we paid $18k for ours, it was early days for that model. But all in all a great machine to start with! As mentioned above about the loudness/repeating noise, we got some hear protection for the guys.