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Need Help Suggestions Question Adhesion Issues, Need Suggestions

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by RISEgraphics, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. RISEgraphics

    RISEgraphics Member

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    Jun 12, 2018
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    We are using 3M 40C with Oraguard's 210 Matte to apply some decals to a laminated hanging sign for a tradeshow booth. For whatever reason, the vinyl doesn't want to stay applied and lifts. I'm looking for some suggestions on an adhesive we can use. I know that the 40C is a recommended dry install and that some oppose using RapidTac with it, but is there anything else that may be beneficial? We've used 3M's spray adhesive in the past and can't use it this go around due to the mess it creates.

    Thoughts? Advice?
     
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  2. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    What is the surface its being applied too?
     
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  3. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    What is the substrate made of?

    Did you use Rapid Tac? If you did, don't. Also, make sure you use pressure when you squeegee it on.

    That said, we abandoned using 3M 40C because the temporary adhesive is exactly that--temporary. We found it lifts much sooner than it should from most substrates we have used, even in indoor office signs.
     
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  4. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    This shouldn't matter, but what color are the edges ??

    Also, this shouldn't matter, but sometimes mixing brands can do it. Not quite compatible.
     
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  5. RISEgraphics

    RISEgraphics Member

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    The substrate it's being applied to is a Abet Laminati 410 laminate applied over the top of a wood framed structure to create the hanging sign. We deal with tradeshow booths that are short-term graphic installations and haven't had a problem like this before. I almost assume my installer just neglected to post heat.

    The decals are a solid red. They were given 24 hours to out-gas before they were laminated and plotted.

    We have not used RapidTac, it was just a thought.

    I've considered using a 3M overlam instead of the Oraguard, but haven't had a chance to do much research on what's recommended and why. The 40C/210M combo is what we've been using for a few years, this is the first time we've had the issue. (Which makes me believe it was an install error)
     
  6. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Nothing looks odd about the laminate surface so I'd say its either pressure issue or maybe an unseen contaminate.
     
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  7. aGrainofSalt

    aGrainofSalt Member

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    Try to give it 48 hours outgas before laminate and cut right before installation. Only throwing noodles at the wall here. It is very humid here and reds are the next stickiest colors to rich black for us, we always give extra outgas time for dark red, dark blue, and rich black. Also, trimming just before install for full color graphics will keep the edges from curling as much.
     
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  8. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    If they are solid red, why did you print them?
     
  9. White Haus

    White Haus Formally known as RJPW..........

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    Maybe to match a corporate color??
     
  10. RISEgraphics

    RISEgraphics Member

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    Yup. Had to match the company's Pantone color.

    Humidity could definitely play into it, due to the graphics being done in Utah and traveling to Orlando, FL to be laid. I was notified this morning that the decals we had laid on site here in Utah had curled and fallen off in the crate by the time they were pulled out to be set up on show floor 2 days later.

    Due to the time crunch, we're going to have to try some spray adhesive on the edges to keep them laid. We only need them to hold up for 3 days and the structure is suspended about 40 feet in the air, so I don't think the mess the spray makes will be that much of an eyesore if we can keep it relatively clean. *shrug*
     
  11. aGrainofSalt

    aGrainofSalt Member

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    You could also "tape" the edges with 1" or 2" strips of clear laminate.
     
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  12. RISEgraphics

    RISEgraphics Member

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    That sounds like a much easier solution! My brain is so fried after this past month that coming up with a quick solution was making me cross-eyed. So I REALLY appreciate everyone's help! We'll give it a go and see what happens. Thank you again, gang!
     
  13. Emd2kick

    Emd2kick Member

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    Shouldn’t be from mix and match material, as we have mixed those two often w/ no issue. My only other guess is the ink density, even w/ outgas too much eco solve can hurts the adhesive and create edge curl. That’s why my Roland is a paperweight, and we primarily use latex.
     
  14. RISEgraphics

    RISEgraphics Member

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    Salt Lake City, UT
    UPDATE: Found that the issue was caused by an install error. The decals were applied in our warehouse that averages about 40* fahrenheit and didn't see any post heat. Second application with the same materials with some stank on the application pressure and heat fixed the ol' girl right up.

    I appreciate every response received! I can't tell ya how helpful these forums have been for me over the last few years when my brain won't function.

    Cheers to you all!
    :notworthy::toasting:
     
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