Am i crazy or is this shop low balling?

[john1]

Had another potential customer today ask about getting some decals for their car business. Said they use a guy now who is so backed up the orders take weeks to receive and wanted to see other options.

So, They send me this invoice they got from him apparently. The smalls are 6x3.5" cut vinyl and larges i'm not sure, they didn't say directly what size they were. The design is pretty much lettering cut out in the middle with a outline on top and a regular style on a second line.

I thought this was WAY too cheap for cut vinyl and i told them i could print them but at $.74 each for 500 unlaminated and $.96 laminated

I haven't heard back lol

I explained how the cheap price they are getting and poor turnaround time may say alot for the companies they are using now and the benefits of printed over cut vinyl (color combos almost unlimited, shape unlimited, design unlimited pretty much). I also let them know the standard turnaround for bulk orders is 3-7 business days.

Anyone care of share their say on this deal?

 

[iSign]

means nothing without seeing the art...

and besides, never trust a vague term like "cut vinyl" 10 people could say that and mean 10 different things... well, ok,,, maybe only 5 things... but what do THEY mean?? ...every single PRINTED decal I've done in the last 10 years... all 10 million of them... they were "cut vinyl" ... and printed...

besides, maybe the 6" x 3.5' decals is an "O" for the Ohio O's ... so, big deal.. cut 500 O's and move on... I'd do that for 63 cents each...

well, actually I wouldn't... maybe the 75 cents you quoted though... but still, words are worthless in this business... show me the goods.. or the art, or the fine print...

 

[john1]

The design is pretty much lettering cut out in the middle with a outline on top and a regular style on a second line.

and cut vinyl to me is a roll of colored vinyl, loaded into the vinyl cutter, cut, and then you sit there and weed out each little detail, mask it all, trim to size.

Only reason im not posting the artwork is due to this being a open forum.

 

[iSign]

and cut vinyl to me is a roll of colored vinyl, loaded into the vinyl cutter, cut, and then you sit there and weed out each little detail, mask it all, trim to size.

I know that & you know that... but if a client asks me for that, & wants anywhere near a buck a piece, I'll show them a printed "vinyl" decal & say how do you want that "cut" ... a rectangle? ...an oval? ..or a nice custom outline that follows the shape of the typography...

that shop ain't just "lowballing'... if they are quoting 2-lines of computer cut vinyl lettering at 63 cents... do nothing... just wait like a vulture.. they can NOT do that & will die trying.. then you swoop in...

 

[jiarby]

welll..

That invoice is for $2500... and these decals are only 10% of the invoice.

He may have made a big profit on that other stuff and then "threw him a bone" with the cheapie decals.

Obviously the other guy is not super excited to do JUST the $250 portion...

BUT..

You may want to consider doing it, because then you can catch the other $2250 when that comes up now & then.

 

[James Burke]

Are these "dealer" decals that go on the deck lid or rear bumper of a car?

If so, they may be thermal kiss-cut. If that's the case, there's no way you can compete with them using a plotter, and they may not be low balling.

They use a heated die to barely touch the surface of the vinyl, and it basically melts its way through to the backing sheet in approximately one second or less. (That's the entire time for ALL of the text)

Typically, they are only one color and they still have to weed them.

Here's a link for the company that makes my hot stamping dies:

http://www.owossographic.com/thermal.cfm

In the photo, they show an "8-up" kiss cut die. Imagine how many you could do in one hour with that.

Furher musing: You might be able to use a heat transfer press (Geo. Knight or similar) to do something like this. I have an old hot stamp press that's nearly 50 years old that could knock these things out all day long. So it might be worth the effort to look into this method if you have the sales volume to support it.

 

[Bigdawg]

But dies are expensive. The customer either paid for the die with the first order - something you wouldn't see on this invoice - or the vendor ate the cost. But either way it is generally not cheap to produce the die the first time.

 

[James Burke]

Complexity of the artwork does NOT factor into the cost of the die. They strictly go by square inches of the die, and they're acid etched.

They have their price list on their web site.

Overall the die cost is a very small piece of the pie in terms of what you can do with it. I've done hot stamping for nearly 17 years and never flinch at die cost. It's a tool that makes money, so long as you have the volume to warrant it. In cases such as "dealer" decals, the volume is truly worth it.

All you need to do is submit "camera ready" artwork.

BTW: Owosso Graphic Arts is a manufactuer. You're not going through a middle man, and I'm sure you'll be surprised by their prices and extremely quick turn around.

 

[royster13]

Some large producers of kiss cut decals use CNC to make dies.....Photo etched are good as far as detail, however, with CNC they can make the edge a sharper point so it cuts better.....They place the die on a letterpress, apply heat and cut 1,000s of pieces an hour....I posted a Youtube link some time back but not sure where it is....

 

[john1]

no no no, this is just a online aftermarket parts company, my second one today i've dealt with lol

Just stickers to give out for promos and stick on car windows

 

[Techman]

I just cnc cut a 4 up x 4 up hot press die for a decal shop.

Soft aluminum plate with copy ready in vector format.. He bolts it to some kind of hot press.

Lets see here. 4 up and it takes about 10 seconds to move and press the substrate. 6 presses per minute.

24 pieces a minute is about 1440 / hour. WOW..

 

[Firefox]

10 seconds each would be very slow for a letter press, even an antique hand fed letter press would be faster.

 

[royster13]

Starts about 2:00 in.....
http://www.youtube.com/user/Websticker#p/u/9/hYKaAYMFSGg

 

[Techman]

WOW!

friggin FAST.

I wonder if they use a spray on teflon..

 

[Firefox]

WOW!

friggin FAST.

I wonder if they use a spray on teflon..

That was about 1 impression every 2-3 seconds and like the guy in the vidio said it was running slow so you could see it!

 

[James Burke]

I wonder if they use a spray on teflon

Owosso offers teflon coating is available for their kiss-cut dies.

Royster- sweet video, they're moving a lot of vinyl in an hours time, for sure.

 

[john1]

Yeah this guy must be hurting for business or just doesn't value his services alot IMO.

Did some market research and found the exact shop (hehehehe) and asked for a order similar in design and the exact size and got this

6x3"

300 $0.85 each
500 $0.65 each

All cut vinyl, 1 color, weeded, masked and separated.

Deff walking away from this client, People like this guy has customers spoiled.