Anyone here part of a 100+ employee company?

[Boudica]

Jburton, I now want to phone prank you.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

This is interesting, I'm actually seeing articles that say OSHA is underfunded and understaffed to effectively be able to enforce this mandate and it will more then likely be left up to the individual companies to do so. That and this will actually have to go through the lawsuits that have been filled on it.

One article said that even if they were fully staffed, OSHA isn't setup to do this type of proactive enforcement. It's usually where they get people filing complaints and such. For February, there was about 4 mil in fines, but they only ended up getting 900,000 (this was for violating safety precautions during beer bug). That's quite a reduction.

They have the manpower to go after the large companies. If osha can show up to the guys shop whose 1 employee got their finger lopped off on the table saw, they will have enough staff to start hitting the guys with 1000 employees. Once people start seeing enforcement, they will start complying. At the end of the day, the vast majority of employers will not subject themselves to fines just to support the principals of a very small minority of their employees. Shareholders of the larger companies also won't support it and the top brass bow to the board. They like to keep their jobs.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

They have the manpower to go after the large companies. If osha can show up to the guys shop whose 1 employee got their finger lopped off on the table saw, they will have enough staff to start hitting the guys with 1000 employees. Once people start seeing enforcement, they will start complying. At the end of the day, the vast majority of employers will not subject themselves to fines just to support the principals of a very small minority of their employees. Shareholders of the larger companies also won't support it and the top brass bow to the board. They like to keep their jobs.

First off, OSHA is usually called in, for such things, this mandate is more proactive, they have to get out there and beat the streets and find something, not wait for that call to come in. However, in order to get reductions in fines from 4 mil to 900k, there has got to be pushback somewhere. There isn't that much reduction unless there was some pushback, particularly during something that is related to this "pandemic". So, if there is that much pushback on something that has been legislated for them to be enforced, then I would imagine that there would be that much pushback for something that is wildly unpopular, not just here, but just about everywhere (it reminds me of that quote of Leia's to Tarkin).

What one has to worry about, as far as companies goes, is what about the brain drain. Sure, if it's a lineworker, so what, but what happens if it's someone that isn't quite as easy to replace (or a significant amount of that type of employee)? That's where there tends to be a pickle. Keep also in mind, that testing is on the business as well. They would have to go high on the hog and not allow any unvaxxed in their employ otherwise they are out on that money as well. I do see some companies doing it (and there are typically along an ideology line as well (further then most other companies, although for whatever reason most global companies are also towing this line)), other companies I wouldn't see it, particularly companies whose brand is opposite this ideology, because if they do it without a fight, there essentially toast from that point on.


This "pandemic" also brought up another problem for these companies. People (my wife included) that took jobs working for someone else, did so for more security then if they did something on their own, contrary to a lot of us that throw caution to the wind and started our own thing (usually related to the pipe dream that the larger company had loyalty to their workforce, which at one time they did). That illusion has been shattered for a lot of people, along with other traditional workplace illusions as well. Those that kinda vacillate between doing their own thing and working for someone else, I could see that being the deciding factor on this. If that is enough people, that could translate or if they even wanted to change jobs anyway, enough of those that could cause a dent.

Boudica, while I didn't click on that song that you linked, I thought it was with Paul McCartney and the Wings, not with the Beatles, but that was before my time (did enjoy the Bond movie though).

 

[Gino]

He swims with Jimmie Hoffa or the fishes...............................

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Wouldn't OSHA just tell every company to submit paperwork confirming employees status, then just attempt to police those who submit incomplete or no paperwork? I mean, how hard could it be to make a spread sheet and mail out fines?

That still requires someone to be there to take care of that paperwork, make sure everything is kosher and check up on it. Even the IRS has a hard time keep up with things and things fall through the cracks (and I would imagine that they should be better funded given that they deal with an even bigger collection pool). I think they have gone more to a random, the computer spits out a few names (or looks for certain red flags etc) and then someone manually goes through them. I think we are talking about what 2/3s the workforce, something like that, that's a whole lot to go through and to make sure that everything is kosher. Then you have to cross reference those that have exemptions (which it has been stated that there will be exemptions, even the typical ones) so all that does is add in another layer. If it does actually happen. When someone says that something "will" happen, I tend to be dubious until it actually does happen. This, of course, assumes that it makes it through litigation. That always isn't a sure thing. You even had the Anthrax vaccine mandate get called illegal for the military back in 2004. Although there is always something that makes one situation unique over the other, which leaves it up in the air.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

That still requires someone to be there to take care of that paperwork, make sure everything is kosher and check up on it. Even the IRS has a hard time keep up with things and things fall through the cracks (and I would imagine that they should be better funded given that they deal with an even bigger collection pool). I think they have gone more to a random, the computer spits out a few names (or looks for certain red flags etc) and then someone manually goes through them. I think we are talking about what 2/3s the workforce, something like that, that's a whole lot to go through and to make sure that everything is kosher. Then you have to cross reference those that have exemptions (which it has been stated that there will be exemptions, even the typical ones) so all that does is add in another layer. If it does actually happen. When someone says that something "will" happen, I tend to be dubious until it actually does happen. This, of course, assumes that it makes it through litigation. That always isn't a sure thing. You even had the Anthrax vaccine mandate get called illegal for the military back in 2004. Although there is always something that makes one situation unique over the other, which leaves it up in the air.

Come on now, this is basic stuff. You turn in online reports, a program matches your submission, when you don't do it on time, you get an automated letter. When you still don't comply, it gets kicked to a human. Its no different than your reporting requirements to OSHA for injury. They will likely make you report covid cases as well. Then some other algorithm will determine if you need human follow up for a records inspection if your covid numbers fall out of the mean.
Every single company with an MSHA contractor ID has to report hours worked per employee and all injuries every quarter. Sure, you can falsify records but do you want to get caught doing that?
You're trying to wish this away by dreaming up roadblocks to enforcement. That's fine but it's not reality. Yes it will probably be easy to cheat, if that's a road that you are willing to go down but it will only take 1 disgruntled employee to turn you in. With 100+ employees, it would not take long.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Not submitting a report on time etc is not what I actually had in mind. I would assume something would be in that initial report. Not submitting on time and causing that to be kicked back to a human would only depend if it costs less to not submit then it does to submit in the first place (and there are actually some things where that does hold true, at least with some taxes).

On something like this though when trying to curb things, it requires a more proactive reporting type though. Especially with all the fear porn going on with it. Being reactive isn't going to be good for flattening the curve or stopping a super spreader situation.

Although you are right, if this does make it past litigation (which it may, but not everything does), I can see there being at least one that is going to act like Donald Sutherland in the Body Snatchers with the fickle finger within a business as we are already seeing that now just in stores.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

Stolen Elections come at a very high price and have dire consequences

Sweet baby Jesus. Imagine holding onto this ridiculous, disproven, comical, asinine, conspiracy theory for this long. The count, recounts, re-recounts, re-re-recounts are in: the Mango Menace lost. I know that hurts to hear, but it's true.

But maybe he'll be reinstated on January 6th! Or was it sometime in March? Or May? Or July 4th? Or maybe it was August 13th? Maybe it'll be sometime in 2021....or maybe...or maybe...or maybe.......

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Sweet baby Jesus. Imagine holding onto this ridiculous, disproven, comical, asinine, conspiracy theory for this long. The count, recounts, re-recounts, re-re-recounts are in: the Mango Menace lost. I know that hurts to hear, but it's true.

But maybe he'll be reinstated on January 6th! Or was it sometime in March? Or May? Or July 4th? Or maybe it was August 13th? Maybe it'll be sometime in 2021....or maybe...or maybe...or maybe.......

I reckon your going to get the same length of time that Russian Collusion was used back in 2016 and all that nonsense as well (and if I recall correctly, didn't Schiff say he saw the evidence, but yet nothing happened). It's all part of division.

 

[Gino]

Quoted: xx
Sweet baby Jesus. Imagine holding onto this ridiculous, disproven, comical, asinine, conspiracy theory for this long. The count, recounts, re-recounts, re-re-recounts are in: the Mango Menace lost. I know that hurts to hear, but it's true.

But maybe he'll be reinstated on January 6th! Or was it sometime in March? Or May? Or July 4th? Or maybe it was August 13th? Maybe it'll be sometime in 2021....or maybe...or maybe...or maybe.......

____________________________________
So, I take it from your comments, unless others agree with you, they are wrong. You're not wrong, they are.

So, how does this work in your world ?? You see the information you want and turn a blind eye and not listen to anything else ?? No chance you could be wrong, huh ??

Me personally, I don't care what anyone else thinks and I'd kindly like them to stay outta my life. If ya can't at least discuss or debate..... or even listen, then you're useless. Just plain useless.

Everyday there is more and more evidence of how bad this new so-called president is doing and all he does is deflect his pathetic speeches to thwart the real problems he's creating. In just 7 months, he's turned this country into a laughing zoo. You think Trump was bad..... this guy is as useless as you in a discussion.

Just saying, the door swings both ways. On a different note, when you cross the street, do you look both ways or just walk out, like metal can't hurt flesh, like all the other illegals do ?? Seems to fit you MO.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Everyday there is more and more evidence of how bad this new so-called president is doing and all he does is deflect his pathetic speeches to thwart the real problems he's creating. In just 7 months, he's turned this country into a laughing zoo. You think Trump was bad..... this guy is as useless as you in a discussion.

If people actually paid attention to what he said during his campaign, this would have been determined long ago, but TDS was rampant with people.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

So, I take it from your comments, unless others agree with you, they are wrong. You're not wrong, they are.

Doesn't have anything with agreeing or disagreeing with me, it has to do the complete lack of proof of a "Stolen Election".

So, how does this work in your world ?? You see the information you want and turn a blind eye and not listen to anything else ?? No chance you could be wrong, huh ??

I see the information that is provided, which is the audits and recounts, and they all say the same thing: the election was valid and Biden won. I could be wrong and if evidence comes to light then I'll definitely look at it, but so far it's been debunked. The only vote manipulation I remember seeing is those 3k or however many votes for Trump that they found in the back of an H3.

Me personally, I don't care what anyone else thinks and I'd kindly like them to stay outta my life. If ya can't at least discuss or debate..... or even listen, then you're useless. Just plain useless.

I'm not sure what this means? You don't care what anyone else thinks and would like them to stay outta your life, yet you read and respond to my post? Why can't I discuss, debate, or listen?

Everyday there is more and more evidence of how bad this new so-called president is doing and all he does is deflect his pathetic speeches to thwart the real problems he's creating. In just 7 months, he's turned this country into a laughing zoo. You think Trump was bad..... this guy is as useless as you in a discussion.

My post didn't mention how good or bad of a job Biden was doing or how bad I thought Trump was. I just called him a Mango Menace, which seems fitting because he's orange.

On a different note, when you cross the street, do you look both ways or just walk out, like metal can't hurt flesh, like all the other illegals do ?? Seems to fit you MO.

What does this even mean? Are illegal immigrants the only people who get hit by cars? Do you think I'm an illegal immigrant?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I see the information that is provided, which is the audits and recounts, and they all say the same thing: the election was valid and Biden won. I could be wrong and if evidence comes to light then I'll definitely look at it, but so far it's been debunked. The only vote manipulation I remember seeing is those 3k or however many votes for Trump that they found in the back of an H3.

PA is requesting more stuff as I seem to recall. Some that have done, haven't received everything that they requested. If everything is above board, way hasn't all been received?

Things like this, keep it going.


Back to regularly programming.

Government Advisory Board in a 16-2 vote rejected the idea for boosters for everyone 16 and up, with the exception of those 65 and older (which in all honesty, I could agree with logic as they are also statistically the most vulnerable, but it should still be their own decision as not everyone is in the same state of health as well, I know some have been told not to get the vaccine by their own doctor and one of those is in that age group). They cited lack of data about safety as well as value of mass boosters.

Next step is through the FDA, in a few days, but apparently they usually follow this panel's recommendations. Also have the CDC as well.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Unfortunately, while that is abundantly hypocrisy, that doesn't in of itself negate what they say (depending on what arguments that the bring to the table).

To play devil's advocate here. Say you have a doctor that tells you smoking cigarettes is a very bad thing (and this actually has a connection to my concerns of what happens yrs down line and that argument, but I digress) and he goes through all the things of why you shouldn't smoke etc. Later on, you see the doctor smoking like a haystack. Does seeing him do that automatically mean that everything he said was wrong, because he chose to smoke anyway?

Makes you question what he told you.

Doesn't have anything with agreeing or disagreeing with me, it has to do the complete lack of proof of a "Stolen Election".

I see the information that is provided, which is the audits and recounts, and they all say the same thing: the election was valid and Biden won. I could be wrong and if evidence comes to light then I'll definitely look at it, but so far it's been debunked. The only vote manipulation I remember seeing is those 3k or however many votes for Trump that they found in the back of an H3.

I'm not sure what this means? You don't care what anyone else thinks and would like them to stay outta your life, yet you read and respond to my post? Why can't I discuss, debate, or listen?

My post didn't mention how good or bad of a job Biden was doing or how bad I thought Trump was. I just called him a Mango Menace, which seems fitting because he's orange.

What does this even mean? Are illegal immigrants the only people who get hit by cars? Do you think I'm an illegal immigrant?

For how woke the left claims to be...you sure to enjoy name calling someone's skin color.... now isn't that the FIRST thing we're taught as children not to do?

 

[dypinc]

Did we really elect this f**king Commie?

Biden's team tightens grip on state use of Covid antibody treatments

Federal health officials plan to allocate specific amounts to each state under the new approach.

www.politico.com

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Makes you question what he told you.

Absolutely, but it in of itself doesn't mean that what they told you is wrong. It would make it even more so, if he didn't give this, that and the other reason as to why not to do it. He just chose to do it anyway. Like a lot of things, people have to make their own decisions and proceed as best that they can, with what info that they have.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Did we really elect this f**king Commie?

Well, in all honestly, there really isn't that much difference between a lot of the liberals and full on communism. They all have an underlying note of Marxism in them. Just how quickly each version kills a society is the main difference.

Just wait until their is social credit scores (business are already trying to implement it in some form), I think the canucks are doing something along this as well, but I don't follow up to much that goes on there.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

Makes you question what he told you.


For how woke the left claims to be...you sure to enjoy name calling someone's skin color.... now isn't that the FIRST thing we're taught as children not to do?

Difference is that he chose to paint himself orange.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Difference is that he chose to paint himself orange.

Are you really wanting to make that the standard in which that allows a response, because that will open up the floodgates.

 

[dypinc]

Well, in all honestly, there really isn't that much difference between a lot of the liberals and full on communism. They all have an underlying note of Marxism in them. Just how quickly each version kills a society is the main difference.

Just wait until their is social credit scores (business are already trying to implement it in some form), I think the canucks are doing something along this as well, but I don't follow up to much that goes on there.

The pandemic is to force you to get the vaccine. The vaccine is to force you to get the vaccine passport. The passport is to force you to get the social credit score. The social credit score is to force you to obey the government. The government can now deny you food, medicine, housing, travel ..