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Need Help applying without bubbles

tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
I have been doing signs for 7 yrs now and I still have a lot of problems with air bubbles. Could it be the type of vinyl I am using? Lately I am using HP prime gloss vinyl. I do not laminate my prints because I do not have a laminator. Does lamination make a huge difference that keeps the bubbles out? I have this problem with big and small prints on all different substrates. I have tried both wet and dry mount. I'm at my wits end trying to figure this out. I feel like I am not giving my customers what they deserve.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
Is this just for substrates? Buy a manual laminator for $150 and you'll lose 99% of your bubbles.

If you're hand applying with non air egress vinyl.... You'll likely always get bubbles. Look into a big squeegee or a manual laminator
 
ams

ams

New Member
tamif said:
I have been doing signs for 7 yrs now and I still have a lot of problems with air bubbles. Could it be the type of vinyl I am using? Lately I am using HP prime gloss vinyl. I do not laminate my prints because I do not have a laminator. Does lamination make a huge difference that keeps the bubbles out? I have this problem with big and small prints on all different substrates. I have tried both wet and dry mount. I'm at my wits end trying to figure this out. I feel like I am not giving my customers what they deserve.
Click to expand...

You need a laminator, don't sell unlaminated prints. Also use vinyls that have Rapid Air / Air Egress and you won't see a single bubble again.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
It's mostly all about technique........ and then practice, practice, practice.

Have you ever worked along side of someone who could do it without bubbles ?? If not, I would venture to say, you need to learn the correct way.

edit: needless to say air egress, cast, calendared, laminated or not, translucent....... they all CAN be done without bubbles. Other than floating translucent onto an acrylic face, all should be done dry.​
 
I

iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
7 years sounds like an awful lot of signs with bubbles in them. And most of them are probably faded by now too! Why not just get a laminator?

If you’re going to do it, do it right?
 
E

ewded

.
The natural progress is working as an employee at a sign company to learn the basics. If you have enough money to skip this and just buy your printer you'll miss a lot, as applying the vinyl bubble free is only the first step. It needs to be applied correctly, you need to use the right material, get the right price, use the right tools and so on. Get a job as a sign maker at a medium sized company and in a years time you'll profit much more than you could every imagine even if you'll earn less. You can always restart your business when you feel ready.
 
MikePro

MikePro

New Member
Lamination won't help with the bubbles. However, it not only enhances the longevity of your product BUT it also makes your vinyl thicker and easier to handle during the application stage.

If you're wet applying and getting bubbles, then you need more soap in your water and a keen-eye for spotting their formation.
If you're dry applying and getting bubbles, then you need a better process of application.

....OR shop a vinyl product line that contains ControlTac/AirEgress/AirRelease/etc. adhesive and just dry apply everything without bubbles no problem.
They embed a channel pattern or raised dot pattern into the adhesive, that allows the vinyl to "float" above the substrate and allow air to flow out as you squeevee center-outward. If you haven't experienced this type of vinyl, i would recommend you do ASAP. Nearly impossible to get bubbles.
 
B

bannertime

Active Member
100% about that squeegee technique. You can't just wave the thing around on top the material and except it to work. You have to know how to work it. I show all my new employees the Arlon series of videos regarding vehicle wrap installation. After watching those, there is a considerable jump up in the quality of their work.
 
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tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
Gino said:
It's mostly all about technique........ and then practice, practice, practice.

Have you ever worked along side of someone who could do it without bubbles ?? If not, I would venture to say, you need to learn the correct way.

edit: needless to say air egress, cast, calendared, laminated or not, translucent....... they all CAN be done without bubbles. Other than floating translucent onto an acrylic face, all should be done dry.​
Click to expand...
I have not had the privilege of working with anyone else. Would love that opportunity, but being from a small town I don't know that I would get that chance.
 
tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
bannertime said:
100% about that squeegee technique. You can't just wave the thing around on top the material and except it to work. You have to know how to work it. I show all my new employees the Arlon series of videos regarding vehicle wrap installation. After watching those, there is a considerable jump up in the quality of their work.
Click to expand...
Are those videos available to anyone? I will definitely look into it.
 
tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
iPrintStuff said:
7 years sounds like an awful lot of signs with bubbles in them. And most of them are probably faded by now too! Why not just get a laminator?

If you’re going to do it, do it right?
Click to expand...
It is a long time and I don't feel like I'm giving the quality my customers deserve which is why I'm trying to figure it out. So far I have never had a customer complain and have not had a problem with fading. I would love to be able to laminate I just don't have the funds to buy a laminator. I have tried the hand press lamination, but just got bubbles in it too.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Let me be gentle on this, as I have just put a rather large problem behind me and am feeling good, going into the weekend.

There are no priviledges in this or anything else. You, and you alone, are responsible for what you are, where you are and what's in store for you. If you are too timid to ask someone to show you in person or cannot find a decent video, I would venture to say, you are in the wrong business. After 7 years, you can afford to do almost all of your prints wrong and admittedly they are installed poorly, but can't find the funds to buy a few thousands dollars worth of needed machinery, something is really wrong.

Is the vinyl you're using air egress ?? Can you at least tell us that much ??

Why is it, people come here with problems, but don't give you any information........ and getting that information is like pulling teeth ??
 
B

bannertime

Active Member
tamif said:
Are those videos available to anyone? I will definitely look into it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the specific video is no longer available. Not sure when they took it offline. It was called the "wrapitright" series has mostly been set to private. I think 3M also had some videos. But the Arlon one went into a bit more detail about preventing wrinkles and such.
 
tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
Gino said:
Let me be gentle on this, as I have just put a rather large problem behind me and am feeling good, going into the weekend.

There are no priviledges in this or anything else. You, and you alone, are responsible for what you are, where you are and what's in store for you. If you are too timid to ask someone to show you in person or cannot find a decent video, I would venture to say, you are in the wrong business. After 7 years, you can afford to do almost all of your prints wrong and admittedly they are installed poorly, but can't find the funds to buy a few thousands dollars worth of needed machinery, something is really wrong.

Is the vinyl you're using air egress ?? Can you at least tell us that much ??

Why is it, people come here with problems, but don't give you any information........ and getting that information is like pulling teeth ??
Click to expand...
If I was too timid to ask for help I certainly wouldn't be asking on a forum where some people tend to be rude rather than helpful. It is not that I don't ask for the help it is that there is no one to ask. There is one other sign shop in my town and he is also a one man shop and has no printer. There is a town an hour away which I wouldn't mind traveling to but I assumed they would not be willing to help someone that could potentially be a competitor. I have watched tons of videos and continue to look for videos, books, webinars, etc. I have switched over to the air egress vinyl, however this last roll I bought I apparently ordered the wrong one. It turned out to be HP prime gloss CP instead of the HP prime gloss air GP.
 
tamif

tamif

T-N-T Designs
ikarasu said:
Is this just for substrates? Buy a manual laminator for $150 and you'll lose 99% of your bubbles.

If you're hand applying with non air egress vinyl.... You'll likely always get bubbles. Look into a big squeegee or a manual laminator
Click to expand...
I do have a big squeegee and just recently got a timbermaxx. Where are you finding a laminator for $150? I will definitely look into that. Thank you
 
kheebl

kheebl

Member
I

ikarasu

Active Member
tamif said:
I do have a big squeegee and just recently got a timbermaxx. Where are you finding a laminator for $150? I will definitely look into that. Thank you
Click to expand...
How big do you need?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39-1000MM-...816377?hash=item4d783e1539:g:HSIAAOSwYNVdJuyX I was assuming you're not mounting 54" wide prints and just mounting into regular signs. So this is 39"..


https://www.ebay.com/itm/51In-Cold-...742836&hash=item1c56673133:g:-LEAAOSw-3FZMm-o 51 inch

They have some 60" also for $4-500.


I don't trust these for putting laminate onto vinyl... They may work, but I wouldn't count on it. Now for mounting vinyl onto a sign they work perfectly for a low budget.
 
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