arlon 3170 laminate

[Geneva Olson]

arlon 3170 is my favorite laminate. It's cast and it is thin and pretty inexpensive. We have noticed recently that the lamination seems to be separating from the vinyl. Does anyone have any insight as to why it's separating?

 

[Geneva Olson]

Now I'm just following you around!
I'd never heard of 3170, figured you meant 3270, but wow, that'd save me over $150 per roll.
In any case, assuming this is coming off your latex printer, it's an issue with the scratch resistant features of the ink I believe. Some laminates are worse than others. Try printing a 1'x1' square, high ink density, stick it to the table, cover it with some laminate leaving a folded edge to pull from, then see how easily the laminate can be separated from it vs non printed material.
I use arlon 3420 satin on flat stuff and almost never notice it being an issue. I've had problems with 3m 8518, but not many. When do you notice the two separating? During or after install?

After install. I've been using it for several years now. But just the past few months I got calls back. The first one was a boat. A teenager had the boat and we are fairly certain he ran into the dock with it. But it seems to be the more recent items we have done are separating.

fwiw: 3170 is difficult to come by right now. My fellers rep told me about the 3m..i think it's the 8518..but I could be wrong. one of the 3ms is a cast laminate that's a little more expensive than the 3170

 

[Geneva Olson]

The 8518 is about twice what the 3170 appears to be. The 3270 I've been getting is $429 for 54", 8518 was nearly $600, 3170 is $263! 3270 is my current favorite, always goes down smooth for me, but that price difference has me eyeing 3170 pretty hard...

arlon doesn't warranty it if you pair it with slx. but i don't expect warranty issues..if i see consistent issues with 3170, i will probably switch.

oh and the rep said it's the 3m8508..the gloss is the only one in that group that is cast.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Wha, really? I thought I had been buying wrap packs with the two. Or wait, do you mean the 3170?

yea. slx isn't paired with 3170

 

[Notarealsignguy]

arlon doesn't warranty it if you pair it with slx. but i don't expect warranty issues..if i see consistent issues with 3170, i will probably switch.

oh and the rep said it's the 3m8508..the gloss is the only one in that group that is cast.

8518 is cast. 8508 is a cast but it's on the quality level of a calendared laminate

 

[FCD]

Arlon 3170 is not to be used with cast films, it's basically a higher end laminate for calendered vinyl. If you've used it with cast films and had failures, that is probably the cause.

 

[karst41]

arlon 3170 is my favorite laminate. It's cast and it is thin and pretty inexpensive. We have noticed recently that the lamination seems to be separating from the vinyl. Does anyone have any insight as to why it's separating?

From time to time I get de lamination with the Latex inks. Both 792 and 831A.
I dial back the Optimizer and get better results.

 

[karst41]

Arlon 3170 is not to be used with cast films, it's basically a higher end laminate for calendered vinyl. If you've used it with cast films and had failures, that is probably the cause. High Pro Laminate in Intermediate print film is a fantastic choice when using 3m films. I have many years experience with this combo. It is a Winner.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yeah, but is there shrinkage? Ask George while you're at it for me...

Yes, especially when it's cold.

 

[Boudica]

Like a frightened turtle.

 

[TSC1985]

We just started using it as well. We pair it Arlon 4600GLX for simple applications like ACM, Aluminum, and door graphics. Rated for 5+ years. So far so good for us, using ECOSOL Max2 inks. We tried to bridge the gap, price and longevity, between economy cal and and full cast set ups.

 

[truckgraphics]

We thought about trying Arlon 3170, but the specs seem to indicate it doesn't have UV protection. On the other hand, we use a lot of the 4600 GLX high performance calendared for decals, so perhaps its worth a try. To date though, we've been using 3270, and other cast laminates when the 3270 was out of stock.

I do like 1.3 mil thickness laminate. It's lighter (especially when putting the roll into the laminator!) and conforms to curves nicely.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Arlon 3170 is not to be used with cast films, it's basically a higher end laminate for calendered vinyl. If you've used it with cast films and had failures, that is probably the cause.

arlon is very definitely selling it as a cast laminate

 

[highrolling24]

I thought about using it because of the cost but it said This product is not designed to be used as an optically clear window film, or to be used with cast digital films. so i called the company and they said not to use it with cast vinyl because its a intermediate cast mean almost all other casts are like a premium cast because that is what cast is supposed to be, I never heard of a intermediate cast! So I stayed away and started using Ritrama cast and been working good then they got bought out by Dura Tech or something and havent been able to get there cast yet, I really liked Ritrama jet 50 wrap vinyl, 10 year cast but then they got bought out and ASAP havent been able to get there new stuff yet and I dont know the price, I am sure it went up.

 

[Boudica]

arlon is very definitely selling it as a cast laminate

Weird. It claims it's an "intermediate" cast laminate, but at the end of the paragraph: This product is not designed to be used as an optically clear window film, or to be used with cast digital films.

...That's a bit confusing.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Sounds a lot like 3M 8508. They call it cast but say it's for use on intermediate vinyl only. We had problems with 8508 not adhering so we stopped using it.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Sounds a lot like 3M 8508. They call it cast but say it's for use on intermediate vinyl only. We had problems with 8508 not adhering so we stopped using it.

this is really what i'm looking at now. I love arlon 3170. After asking one of the installers, it turns out that we had a problem with it on two boats (not just one) and then on an ambulance. It pulled off when they overlapped on reflective. But reflective is super sticky so I didn't think anything of it. But when she mentioned it pulled off on slx then I said, Ok, that might be a problem. It's a lot like saran wrap..

 

[Scotchbrite]

I think like others have mentioned, it has to do with the latex issue; at least in our case. I've noticed that if I really try to, I can get the laminate off a lot of our prints. Especially if I'm peeling it off of something, the laminate tends to come off on its own first.

We had bad experience with 8508, but I know there are others that love it.

 

[kirkbedtelyon]

We use 3170 over 3m-40c. Works great.

 

[signheremd]

3270 is the laminate to use with Arlon SLX, not 3170 - though 3170 has a great price point and is an 8year laminate, it was not designed to be used with cast digital vinyl. 8508 is only 4year and meant for flat areas and simple curves - 8518 is the better laminate and is 8 year. You want really good laminate, use Oraguard 290 - that is a 10year laminate good for wraps and simple stuff. If you want a great price on quality, consider General Formulations GF831 - 8 year, good price point, American made by an American company with zero debt, made to work with digitally printed wrap vinyl (solvent, latex, UV) as well as flat substrates, like ACM. Another we like is Briteline WrapCast Optically Clear Overlaminate - great price point, works on printed wrap vinyl, is a 7year, and as I understand it may actually be 3M 8518. These last two are close in price to the 8508 and 3170, but better quality.