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Arlon wrap material will not print properly with Arlon profile

gabagoo

New Member
In all these years I have never had issues like this. I have never bought Arlon wrap material but all the others...3M, Oracal, Avery have always printed very nice , even using a general profile. This stuff doesn't seem to print nice on any profile I have and I have 3 Arlon profiles from Flexi so I don't know what else to do.

Look at the pic, I can only think it suffers from ink starvation on haltones.

I'm in the process of ordering a new roll from anyone but Arlon.
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
Did you try using a 3M or oracal profile ?? That looks like totally the wrong profile.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Yeah, arlon's vinyl isn't bad at all, likely the wrong profile. Just because you have 3 arlon profiles in flexi doesn't mean you are using anything close to the correct profile. You should download a profile from Arlon themselves for the specified material and see what happens.
Fun fact, if you can't find a profile for your printer/rip setup, they'll make one for you and send it to you!
 

gabagoo

New Member
Did you try using a 3M or oracal profile ?? That looks like totally the wrong profile.
I have tried all of the cmyk profiles and they all print horrible. I think I got a bad roll.... Never buying Arlon again!! I generally find that my Oracal profile prints great on everything, and even that one can't deal with this material.
 

gabagoo

New Member
Yeah, arlon's vinyl isn't bad at all, likely the wrong profile. Just because you have 3 arlon profiles in flexi doesn't mean you are using anything close to the correct profile. You should download a profile from Arlon themselves for the specified material and see what happens.
Fun fact, if you can't find a profile for your printer/rip setup, they'll make one for you and send it to you!
The problem is I need it now not in 2 weeks or however long it takes.....
 

SightLine

║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
With multiple profiles all giving a bad result, even ones you know work good for other brands then I'd assume a bad roll or potentially, but unlikely, some sort of hardware failure (like print heaters died or something). A hardware failure should be simple to rule out by just loading some other known good material and doing a small test print. Another test might be to try and clean a section of the Arlon with alcohol to verify surface contamination but would probably not help if the actual face stock has some issue.
 

gabagoo

New Member
I'm trying to source a new roll of Oracal or Avery and the prices have gone through the roof on this stuff...no wonder the Arlon was a deal...it sucks lol
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Well if I were you, I'd at least follow up with either the distributor who sold it to me or arlon themselves to see about getting a replacement roll. Otherwise you're just throwing the money you spent on it out to spite arlon.
 

unmateria

New Member
That is an old roll. From experience, avery wraps dont last more than 1.5 to 2 years before u cant print them doing that kind of clouds u show in the image
 

gabagoo

New Member
Gabagoo, so how did the vinyl story end? Did you get different material and it printed great?
I have used most of the roll. It seems to print OK with solid colours although I still can see in odd print that ink starvation look. I have about 10 yards left on the roll so I called around and see that prices are through the roof. 3M quote for a bundle was $1900!!! I don't do vehicle wraps so I really need this type of vinyl for partial wraps and just basically to give my clients a good vinyl that will last for decals for heavy equipment and die cut lettering and logos.
I called around and see that Grimco had their house brand... Briteline and the price was about $1250 for the bundle so figured I would try it out. The roll showed up yesterday so will test it out later this week. I'm sure something had to be wrong with that Arlon material as I have never seen anything like this before.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
There should be a product run and date code inside the core of the arlon. If not an actual date, you can ask arlon when that run ran and see if it was indeed old stock.
 

gabagoo

New Member
There should be a product run and date code inside the core of the arlon. If not an actual date, you can ask arlon when that run ran and see if it was indeed old stock.
Picked up this Briteline vinyl from Grimco. prints almost as bad...same sort of ink starvation issue in certain colours. I wonder if it is a heat issue. My printer prints great on all 3 mls and retractable banner material and I used to get Oracal wrap vinyl and always printed great as well. I wonder if Briteline is an Arlon product? hmmmm.
 

unmateria

New Member
I use a lot of arlon and never had any problems with them (never used a dated one, thats true). But avery wraps usually dont use them in 1-2 years and always have problems after 1.5 years (cant print them)
 

GaSouthpaw

Profane and profane accessories.
Yes, it's likely that you got a bad roll. Since there's only 10 yards of it left, you're kind of S.O.L. on it, though- unless you have a good rapport with your sales rep and can show them the issue. You probably won't get credit for the entire roll, but you can probably get a partial.
Had an order five years ago (give or take) we were doing for a manufacturer. They sent 60 some-odd pallets of 54" and 60" media for printing and the first five rolls (five different printers) were delivering horrid results. Tried a different pallet (and different size. Same thing. Tried another pallet. Nope. Checked the numbers on the boxes and all of them were from the same production line, run within days of each other, so our GM calls the manufacturer's rep who handled the job and asked "what gives?" They gave us the run-around for a few weeks, and were trying everything they could to blame us- despite the fact that we had created our own profiles for the media and that each printer had been "certified", along with the ink and our production and processing methods, by the same manufacturer. After a lot of back and forth, the rep finally admitted it was a known issue with that particularly run that the company "had on hand", so they sent it to us, hoping we'd magically be able to make it work (even though, you know, no one else had been able to). They knew it was garbage media, and tried to pass it on anyway. They ended up with a few hundred "free" rolls of media that we used for shipping labels and freebies.
I'm not saying Arlon did the same with that roll- but... anyone remember Avery's issues back in the late 90s-early 2000s? It turned me off of using their vinyl for more than a decade.

One issue that is getting missed or passed over , though, is that the profiles (even the ones from the manufacturers themselves) are set up for ideal conditions (new printers, new heads, brand new ink, brand new material, perfectly controlled climate and humidity, etc.). Which means they're a good starting point, but they aren't, necessarily, the right profile to use. I'm not saying they don't work, just pointing out that they may not work right. Speaking from experience, there's every chance you find a profile that works- but there's an equal chance you won't. No matter what you do.
The only way you can be certain of your results is creating your own profiles (and then you'll know for certain that a given material has a defect). Yes, that can be time consuming (at least when you're just starting them), but it is the best way to get proven results. Due to the time involved, it's completely understandable if the canned profiles are "good enough", but- if you have exacting customers, or want to make sure that the PMS186 you printed three months ago matches the PMS186 you print as a replacement in six months- it's a necessary step.

As for the media prices- I haven't had to do any purchasing in a while, but might I suggest trying GFC? I always got good results from their products at an excellent price point.
 

jcskikus

Owner, Designer & Installer
Yes, it's likely that you got a bad roll. Since there's only 10 yards of it left, you're kind of S.O.L. on it, though- unless you have a good rapport with your sales rep and can show them the issue. You probably won't get credit for the entire roll, but you can probably get a partial.
Had an order five years ago (give or take) we were doing for a manufacturer. They sent 60 some-odd pallets of 54" and 60" media for printing and the first five rolls (five different printers) were delivering horrid results. Tried a different pallet (and different size. Same thing. Tried another pallet. Nope. Checked the numbers on the boxes and all of them were from the same production line, run within days of each other, so our GM calls the manufacturer's rep who handled the job and asked "what gives?" They gave us the run-around for a few weeks, and were trying everything they could to blame us- despite the fact that we had created our own profiles for the media and that each printer had been "certified", along with the ink and our production and processing methods, by the same manufacturer. After a lot of back and forth, the rep finally admitted it was a known issue with that particularly run that the company "had on hand", so they sent it to us, hoping we'd magically be able to make it work (even though, you know, no one else had been able to). They knew it was garbage media, and tried to pass it on anyway. They ended up with a few hundred "free" rolls of media that we used for shipping labels and freebies.
I'm not saying Arlon did the same with that roll- but... anyone remember Avery's issues back in the late 90s-early 2000s? It turned me off of using their vinyl for more than a decade.

One issue that is getting missed or passed over , though, is that the profiles (even the ones from the manufacturers themselves) are set up for ideal conditions (new printers, new heads, brand new ink, brand new material, perfectly controlled climate and humidity, etc.). Which means they're a good starting point, but they aren't, necessarily, the right profile to use. I'm not saying they don't work, just pointing out that they may not work right. Speaking from experience, there's every chance you find a profile that works- but there's an equal chance you won't. No matter what you do.
The only way you can be certain of your results is creating your own profiles (and then you'll know for certain that a given material has a defect). Yes, that can be time consuming (at least when you're just starting them), but it is the best way to get proven results. Due to the time involved, it's completely understandable if the canned profiles are "good enough", but- if you have exacting customers, or want to make sure that the PMS186 you printed three months ago matches the PMS186 you print as a replacement in six months- it's a necessary step.

As for the media prices- I haven't had to do any purchasing in a while, but might I suggest trying GFC? I always got good results from their products at an excellent price point.

I agree with GASouthPaw, the profile isnt right, even if it was created by Mutoh. I usually find a profile that works correctly and gives me the best output on the material I am printing on, and it usually ISN'T the profile that Flexi came up with. On my VJ-1617H, I usually use Arlon profiles as they are the brightest. My 1324 & 1324X, I use 3M profiles and other profiles I created for certain materials like 3M IJ680CR reflective.
I'd suggest creating your own profiles if you cannot find one that works for you. Even though it may say the profile is for another material, doesn't mean you can't use it with what you got. You may get the results you are looking for.

What printer are you using?
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
g this (attached picture) to band on S80600. Nozzles are all fine

Shopfox shaper/router

I have used most of the roll. It seems to print OK with solid colours although I still can see in odd print that ink starvation look. I have about 10 yards left on the roll so I called around and see that prices are through the roof. 3M quote for a bundle was $1900!!! I don't do vehicle wraps so I really need this type of vinyl for partial wraps and just basically to give my clients a good vinyl that will last for decals for heavy equipment and die cut lettering and logos.
I called around and see that Grimco had their house brand... Briteline and the price was about $1250 for the bundle so figured I would try it out. The roll showed up yesterday so will test it out later this week. I'm sure something had to be wrong with that Arlon material as I have never seen anything like this before.
Sounds like you need some new distributors, you're getting screwed on prices. 54" 3M Wrap Vinyl & Laminate costs us around $1100 for the pair.

Also, you need to make 1 or 2 profiles for your printer and your most common vinyl. Then, use those profiles for everything. You may have to hire out to someone who knows/understands profiles, but once they're set up, they're good.
 
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JBurton

Signtologist
54" 3M Wrap Vinyl & Laminate costs us around $1100 for the pair.
Say what? We talking 50yd rolls of ij180 and 8518? I don't buy enough to get a significant discount, but looks like my price is around $1500.
Now if you're talking 175 and 8418, I can get it for around $900...
 

unmateria

New Member
I agree... I really dont know how people survive without making colour profiles and linearizations. Trial and error? Taking the best result between some profiles? Wow guys... If you never tried, you should. Now you dont have to waste a lot of money... An used i1 and argyllcms (you support them with the money you can)
 
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