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Art for Mattell Toy

deegrafix

New Member
I designed the graphics on a monster truck and Mattell will be making it into a toy. The owner of the truck has asked for the artwork to give Mattell and I see this as being worth a pretty good chunk of change but have to figure out how to approach it and arrive at my fee. Any comments?
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
What did you tell him you would charge at the beginning? IMO, you have two separate fees that need to be charged.

1. Design time: Your hourly rate * Hours spent on design

2. Transfer of rights: This is an entirely different thing, and you need to make sure that you get the right contracts and paperwork. Depending on the scale, I's say for this type of thing you should be thinking in the $10k+ range.
 

rjssigns

Active Member
Royalty agreement, percentage of total sales? Maybe talk to someone that has been in a similar situation?
Completely out of my league so I'll go lay by my dish.
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
On a toy product, I'd say screw the royalty agreement. It's an unbelievably fickle market. Cash to sell IP rights. Marketing clause so that you can use the work in your portfolio or in advertisements, etc.

One thing that you may run into is the guy might just have a coronary, since you didn't provide him with proper contracts, etc., when you first did the design work.
 

deegrafix

New Member
He paid to have the artwork created and the truck wrapped, but who knew Mattel would want to make a toy? As soon as this came up I told her I had the copyright on the design and we would have to work something out with Mattell.
 

deegrafix

New Member
One thing that you may run into is the guy might just have a coronary, since you didn't provide him with proper contracts, etc., when you first did the design work.

That's exactly what I'm worried about! I would have never thought to include a contract on licensing/copyright rights with the invoice to wrap the truck. At the same time, couldn't this be the kind of windfall we all look for?
 

slipperyfrog

New Member
Best to spend a couple of dollars and talk to a lawyer that handles this kind of transaction. I am sure a quick assessment would tell you right away what direction you need to go.

You can be assured Mattell will fully understand the design world & design costs.
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
ALWAYS HAVE A CONTRACT!!!!

lesson #1 in design. Your contract needs to cover all possible stipulations and situations that may arise. The most important one being that YOU OWN THE COPYRIGHT AND IP. Also, that you are not performing "work for hire".
 

deegrafix

New Member
I would imagine mattel would be paying the IP transfer $$ not the dude

That's what I'm thinking, but he will worry that I'll cost him his deal if I demand too much. I'm just trying to find out what would be customary, and not greedy, if ya know what I mean....
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
Like I told you - $10k+ sounds about right to me.

just so you have something to go by, I'm in the midwest. That's a pretty fair average as far as costs go for anything in the country.

A decent sized design firm in Columbus will charge a customer $3-5k+ just for a logo project if the client wants to have all IP rights.

You are taking about giving away your rights for something that is going to cost him well into the 5 figures to put into production and which they wouldn't be doing unless they saw the possibility (probability) of a large return.

$10-ish sounds about right.
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
You also have to consider that if your price is outrageous Mattel can always just have the graphics redesigned and the truck re-wrapped.

Not saying it would happen, just throwing the possibility out there.

Sounds like you've got a good reason to look into hiring an agent to represent your interests here. http://www.thebigloop.com/dir/index.php?id=41 Paying someone who knows the ins and outs of copyrights, prices the market will bear, and who knows how to milk as much as possible out of the deal is a lot smarter than just tossing a number at the wall to see if it will stick.
 

deegrafix

New Member
Thanks for the figure Gary. It's a start. Pat, thanks for the link. I've been looking for something like this, examples of contracts, etc.

I'll make the client undrstand that Mattell will be expecting something like this and hire a pro to represent my interests.

Thanks all!
 

ova

New Member
What about using the truck image on shirts, posters, calendars, mugs and the rest of promotional stuff? What if they someday put it in a cartoon series on TV? Don't kill the possible "cash cow", but protect yourself to the fullest.

I would also seek out a copyright lawyer and spend the few dollars up front to get the most. Like you said, this could be the break through you've been looking for.

Don't forget to negotiate to have your company name on the truck.

Dave
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
Wouldn't this part cause an ownership problem?

Nope - not at all. Time after time, courts have ruled that paying someone for the time it takes to create something does not cause the creator to lose the IP rights to the creation. Now, the customer may have a different viewpoint on that, but their viewpoint means squat.
 

RobbyMac

New Member
I ran into this while freelance designing for Playing Mantis and their Johnny Lightning line of diecast. I told them up front that I wouldn't sign any work for hire agreement. I was content getting paid my hourly rate, or per job, but did not want to sign all rights over. SHould they consider a re-run of any of my diecast designs, the term would be negotiated at that time.

'No problem, we'll work out the details later' they said. lol... Every year, like clockwork, their attorney would contact me about getting an agreement signed... Every year, the contract would have 'work for hire' or 'in perpetuity' etc etc etc. I'd tell them 'I'm not going to sign that'. Theyd say, ok hold on doing any more designs for us until we get this hashed out... a month would go by and everyone would be pounding on my door to get designs done for their deadline, and ultimately the powers that be would say 'go ahead and do em'. I wouldn't hear of it again until the next year... 5 or 6 years of that, and then they sold the company to RC2. They tried desperately to get the rights transferred prior to the sale, but didn't want to offer any compensation. So I still own the rights to all of those designs.

Whats important to know, is when you discuss % of sales, you are dealing with a wholesaler... which means you are likely getting % on their wholesale sale price, and not the retail sales price at walmart or whatever... Keep that in mind if you negotiate a %, and read the fine print...
Personally I prefer a per run fee. And JL's were 4$ retail vs Mattell's $1 retail?
 

deegrafix

New Member
Interesting...

So I still own the rights to all of those designs.

So the toys are being manufactured but you don't make anything other than new designs each year? How is owning the rights benefitting you other than the yearly work? (Which is great, of course.)

I'm just trying to get a grasp of the multitude of directions this kind of thing can go..... I'm thinking there is no such thing as "usual and customary" when it comes to IP rights. :banghead:
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
Interesting...

So I still own the rights to all of those designs.

So the toys are being manufactured but you don't make anything other than new designs each year? How is owning the rights benefitting you other than the yearly work? (Which is great, of course.)

I'm just trying to get a grasp of the multitude of directions this kind of thing can go..... I'm thinking there is no such thing as "usual and customary" when it comes to IP rights. :banghead:


Because, if he wanted to be a super d*ck, at any point he could say "wait - I no longer want you producing anything of mine"....And they woudl legally have to stop.
 
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RobbyMac

New Member
True.

With PM, I had double work coming, because I was creating presentations as well as production. Much of what I designed was involved with promotional diecast. It kept me plenty busy, and I managed extra profit off the approved design production artwork.
The company helped me start my own business full-time, and I was more than happy to help them out with the designs. It was made clear that all of the designs would be a one-run event... should they decide to re-run any of them, then we would negotiate the fee to re-use the art later.
At some point, this was forgotten, skipped over, or who knows... because the lawyer started coming around after the first year asking about a rights agreement.
They never did re-runs... And neither has RC2... yet.

Also, fwiw the rights to my work get passed onto my kids...
 
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