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Arthritis anyone???

petepaz

New Member
Pain is good for you. It shows you just how much you can really endure in life. It makes you dig deeper and harder to find out what your real strengths are. Doctors will prescribe drugs and all that does is mask the pain.

Learn to suffer. You'll go farther in life! It's all a state of mind...

yeah rub some dirt on it and get back in the game
just kidding

i went to the dr for pain in my hands about 5 years ago he said either athritis or the start of carple tunnel syndrome..yea!!!!
he gave me some anti-inflamitories
i am usually pretty good unless i do a lot of squeegeeing a few days in a row
but definately go to the dr to to find out what it is some stuf can be helped or even cured if you catch it early enough
maybe you just have something simple like a pinched nerve
 

OldPaint

New Member
This freezer full of red meat is probably not helping my situation at all I guess huh?!![/QUOTE]
i suggested you LIMIT your intake of red meat, because of the URIC ACID it contains, because i had sever joint pain, was seeing back crackers, wearing the little forearm band they sell to stop elbow pain. NOTHING HELPED!!!!! i was in my late 40's. figured i would have to live wit that pain FOREVER.
1991-2, i started taking TAI CHI classes. the people who was teaching, they were all VEGETARIANS. some full VEGAN, and most were LACTO-OVO vegetarians. meaning VEGANS ate zero animal content, lacto-ovo, ate dairy & eggs. which is the way the wife and i went. we did the tai chi classes for over 5 years, and i was a vegetarian up till 2 years ago, wife still is. one of the 1st things i noticed after 30-60 days of this, was NO JOINT PAIN. i was one of those people that URIC ACID was adding to my pain. i suggest to you 30 days.........with out meat, if you still have joint pain, go back to to eating meat. your body changes at or about every 28-30 day cycles. so doing this for 30 days ............you got nothing to loose but the pain maybe)))))))))))))
also i was one of those people who NEVER WENT TO DOCTORS!!! the people who was teaching the tai chi, also knew a lot of chinese medicine, homeopathic and herbal information. i really never seen a doctor till i hit 59.
NOW ITS ALL I DO))))))))))))))
 

signmeup

New Member
I feel for you. I wish I could figure out what's causing all my aches and pains.

Here's one I figured out; My knee has been acting up since August when I ran full blast down a very steep grade for about 3/4 of a mile. Seemed like I was taking 20 foot strides at 40 mph.(exaggerating a bit but you get the picture) Couldn't do stairs the next day. It seems I damaged the bursae in my left knee. I didn't even know I had a bursae. Turns out there are 11 in each knee. Maybe you did something stoopid and forgot?

Oh BTW.... if you drink beer that can give you grief in your feet. Same reason as red meat.... I know... "Say it ain't so!"
 

round man

New Member
Go see a doctor,..They pay to go to school for over twelve years in most places and then have to prove their ability as an intern. There are many side effect of arthritis and one is fatigue. If you take the meds doctors prescribe it may and or may not completely affect the affliction but it might just help with the side effects. This is an ailment that every holistic and quack out there has some sort of remedy for and the false info on it is astounding and the number of people with authoritative attitudes based on this false info is even more amazing. Don't get bamboozled by some cure all dreamt up by some quack,..get good sound authoritative medical diagnosis and treatment. The reason I know this is I too have arthritis and my family even my small children have had it,..the sooner you go see a doctor the sooner you can treat it,... it will not improve over time and it will get worse if not treated,..the earlier the better.
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
I've had occasional flare ups in my hand at times, but nothing long term.

I'm also a beekeeper and don't use gloves. When the girls sting, it hurts...especially the fingertips...but a few hours afterward, the venom acts like an analgesic and any arthritic pain subsides.

I don't recommend it unless you're 100% absolutely sure you're not allergic to bee stings.
 

signmeup

New Member
I tried an Osteopath. My wife's insurance covered it so I figured what the heck. Pretty weird but it seemed to help my idiot's knee and golfer's elbow.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...
There is medical proof that copper does help in many arthritis cases.

Sorry to disappoint you but there is not a shred of evidence that wearing a copper bracelet or cladding yourself cap-a-pie in copper has any effect on anything except the finances of copper merchants.

What there is is a pant-load of anecdotes, all of them detailing how someone cast off their crutches and was up and dancing with their fine new copper appliances. Meaningless. The plural of anecdote is not data.

Arthritis is a bitch. There's two kinds of pain, one kinds tells you it would be a wizard time to pull your hand out of the fire. The other is gratuitous pain that serves no purpose whatsoever. Arthritis is the second variety.

Suffering from both osteo-arthritis and its vicious cousin gout, which comes and goes a couple of times a year based on some principle known only to itself, I can state with some authority that there's pretty much bugger all you can do for it except take pain medication and, perhaps, the occasional anti-inflammatory.

Modern western medicine as well as all of the fruitcake fringe loons won't do much for you. Especially the aforementioned homeopathic nostrums which are, each and every one of them, utterly and absolutely ineffective for anything except separating the gullible from their money. Something about Avogadro's number, eh? It's too bad all of the other fruitcake treatments cannot be as easily disproved. Not that they are incapable of disproof, it's merely tedious to do so.

Magnets, sticking pins in you, thinking happy thoughts, raying you back to health with colored light, and all of the other preposterous treatments competing for your medical dollar, might give you some sort of psychological comfort, but they're not going to cure anything. Ever.

Now comes the tsunami of personal miracle tales from all of those who left the ranks of the halt and the lame via whatever their favorite useless fringe treatment might be. Spare me. Miracle tales, not matter how fervently someone might believe them, mean nothing.

Come up with an hypothesis as to mechanism that does not contradict other things known to be true, a critical experiment, and double blind iterations of that critical experiment that produce identical results for both skeptic and true believer and maybe, that's just maybe, you might have something worth further study. Until that time, you got squat. Moreover, it has to be explained exactly how it works. If it is not known how something works, it cannot be known if it does work.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Hey bob..... I have one that will work if you're looking for a tried and true method. As long as you can keep your cool about it... it works. Stop doing it and the pains will eventually reappear. It's not a permanent cure by your sense it will go away and never return, but as long as you continue my therapy... you will no longer suffer from arthritis and many other complications throughout the body.

Again, you can use this devise on other areas, but start here and once you get a little used to it.... it ain't all that bad.





head in vice.jpg
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
Bob..... No offense intended and I hope none taken but, what works for me certainly may not work for you or some others but does in fact work for many. Why is that? Could it be that some types of Arthritis is caused by one bodies own inability to metabolize certain minerals and such like copper from the foods we eat? (one reason for "Gold Shots" for Arthritis) If so, is it fair to reason that the largest organ of the human body may possibly be the single most efficient delivery gateway into the system? When one places, for a long period of time a piece of non-coated copper against the skin (yes, the largest human organ) it will oxidize (hence...the skin turning green) and the skin will absorb the oxidated copper and transfer it to the blood stream. WHALLA!......traditional metabolism bypassed. Beyond that, I won't argue with you Bob, as you are a master debater and a cunning linguist of whom I know I can not and will not attempt to, nor have the time to draw foils. :wink:
 

OldPaint

New Member
bob, iam sure with all your intellect you have TRIED ALL OF your so called "money separators"!!!!!!!!!hahahahaha i kinda think all you know is what you READ. no personal experience with anything of thing i have offered as POSSIBLE help to the cause of the pain.
URIC ACID and meat and what it does to joints...IS SCIENTIFICALLY A PROVEN FACT.
TAI CHI, CHI GONG & CHINESE MEDICINE have been here 2400 more years then you, and IF YOU got off your high horse and did it..........then tell me it has ZERO impact on your problem.......THEN I MIGHT TRUST YOUR JUDGEMENT!!!!
for now............i know better, been there done this and got a couple t-shirts)))))))))))
 

Jillbeans

New Member
I for one found this to be one of bob's most amusing posts.
I just love to read his writing.
It makes me grin.
And I think my thumb even feels better.
Thanks bob!
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Bob..... No offense intended and I hope none taken but, what works for me certainly may not work for you or some others but does in fact work for many. Why is that? Could it be that some types of Arthritis is caused by one bodies own inability to metabolize certain minerals and such like copper from the foods we eat? (one reason for "Gold Shots" for Arthritis) If so, is it fair to reason that the largest organ of the human body may possibly be the single most efficient delivery gateway into the system? When one places, for a long period of time a piece of non-coated copper against the skin (yes, the largest human organ) it will oxidize (hence...the skin turning green) and the skin will absorb the oxidated copper and transfer it to the blood stream. WHALLA!......traditional metabolism bypassed...

A good and entertaining rationalization but unfortunately not confirmed by any study done with anything resembling rigorous discipline. Worse, studies debunking the copper-arthritis connection are legion. Studies supporting the notion seem to be non-existent.

bob, iam sure with all your intellect you have TRIED ALL OF your so called "money eparators"....

The vast majority of cures from the lunatic fringe can be dismissed a priori. Anything that requires mysterious 'energies' coursing along equally mysterious conduits can be dismissed out of hand. Other endeavors that contradict things known to be true can also be discarded there on the midden heap of inanity.

Perhaps there in your hovel the notion of knowing something a priori is a foreign concept. The rest of the external reality is quite comfortable with it.

The rest of the preposterous hypotheses put forth daily may require actual scholarship and testing in order to debunk them. So far this has been 100% effective. It serves to separate modes of treatment that actually work from the vast majority of the lunacy that does not.

URIC ACID and meat and what it does to joints...IS SCIENTIFICALLY A PROVEN FACT...

Absolutely. In fact it's so common that it has its own name: Gout.

TAI CHI, CHI GONG & CHINESE MEDICINE have been here 2400 more years then you,...

So you subscribe to the concept of legitimacy through longevity, eh? If something has been around long enough then there must be something to it?

If that be the case then you must also subscribe to astrological nonsense, the ability to divine the future, and a host of other absurd wastes of time. After all, they've been around since Thrag of the hill people first burned his finger in a fire.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
A good and entertaining rationalization but unfortunately not confirmed by any study done with anything resembling rigorous discipline. Worse, studies debunking the copper-arthritis connection are legion. Studies supporting the notion seem to be non-existent.

Science is constantly changing in what they determine through studies. So adamently accepting what is shown in studies now, doesn't mean that they will be the same 20 yrs from now.

Granted I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that studies change and you also have to look at each study individually and how they all approached their method of research.


The vast majority of cures from the lunatic fringe can be dismissed a priori.

Actually, logically they cannot be. What you are committing is what is called an ad hominem fallacy. If they are wrong, then you have to show that they are wrong because of reason(s) x, y, and z. You can't just say that they are wrong because they are extremists or on the lunatic fringe.

If what they say is truly wrong, you should be able to show reasons for that. Tedious and time consuming yes, but if they give "reasons" about what they say then you have to counter them with your own "reasons".

Anything that requires mysterious 'energies' coursing along equally mysterious conduits can be dismissed out of hand.

Granted I don't believe in that stuff, but logically once again, you have to state reasons as to why that is so, not just dismiss it totally without giving reasons. However, remember that fire was once considered a mysterious energy as well as lightening. Sometimes what my seem like mysteries to us now, may not be later on.

For instance not quite as arcane mind you as mysterious energies, but there was a manual for the Cavalry about nutritional and fitness requirements for their horses. It mainly had anecdotal evidence like they did "A", observed "B" so therefore, "A" caused "B". Really weak evidence like that or they got information from Indian Shaman. They compiled the aforementioned manual. Oldtimers still use it, most educated owners use it, but they don't realize it. It took about 150 yrs and with regard to the last publication of "Nutrient Requirements of Horses" in 2006 or 2007 about 90% of what was in that manual was proven to be true. Now that book uses scientific equations and terminology, but the technology took that long to be able to show what horse healers and shaman were doing back then with no scientific proof was correct.

I'm not saying that will be the case with regard to this stuff, but the point is, don't dismiss outright and as new evidence comes in be open to re-evaluate.

Other endeavors that contradict things known to be true can also be discarded there on the midden heap of inanity.

It was known to be true that the earth was the center of the universe and that it was also flat at one time. Imagine if anything that contradicted that was automatically thrown out?

This is why science doesn't not accept things as facts, but as theories, because it is constantly changing. Science and scientific studies are all about questions and finding answers. What we know today, but actually be considered wrong 20 yrs from know because we are relying on people's interpretations of the facts, those things change as the situation changes. They don't become laws until there has been copious amounts of research into every known variable. There might actually have to wait until the technology or knowledge changes to allow for research that might finally debunk what was considered to be a law too.


The rest of the preposterous hypotheses put forth daily may require actual scholarship and testing in order to debunk them. So far this has been 100% effective. It serves to separate modes of treatment that actually work from the vast majority of the lunacy that does not.

All this stuff requires analysis to debunk it. That's the thing. What happens if something is missed just because a researcher thought the idea was an an act of lunacy? It might seem like a waste of time, but cutting corners can be pretty bad.

So you subscribe to the concept of legitimacy through longevity, eh? If something has been around long enough then there must be something to it?

Also known as the fallacy of tradition. However, don't commit the converse of that as well. Just because it's been around 2400 yrs doesn't mean that it's wrong and needs to go. I'm not saying that you are, I'm just saying that the converse is just as illogical.

If that be the case then you must also subscribe to astrological nonsense, the ability to divine the future, and a host of other absurd wastes of time. After all, they've been around since Thrag of the hill people first burned his finger in a fire.

One doesn't necessarily follow the other.

Once again, I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that I disagree with you, my problems are with your logical structure of everything.

There is no ability to logically dismiss things outright no matter how lunatic you might think they are. You might miss something that may slightly change your rigid view(not to their viewpoint mind you) to something that is probably just a little different.

If people give reasons why they think something, then you have to give reasons back as to why you think they are wrong or have things slightly off. That's the biggest complaint that I have is that you are so willing to quickly dismiss things. My first BS degree was in animal science(emphasis in equine) and you do not just dismiss things flat out. You note it and you investigate.
 
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bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Science is constantly changing in what they determine through studies.

So adamently accepting what is shown in studies now, doesn't mean that they will be the same 20 yrs from now.

Granted I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that studies change and you also have to look at each study individually and how they all approached their method of research.

Right, but there are limits to change.

If, for example, you were to hypothesize that fire was a liquid or some other equally bizarre proposition, this would represent a rather fundamental alteration of the laws of physics. Those pesky laws, which serve to define the external reality can be and often are nudged this way and that to accommodate new data but to toss them out entirely in order to accommodate something or other would be a stretch. Not only would you have to confirm your hypothesis, but you would have to accommodate all of various physical laws which your proposition violates by restating them in such a way that does not conflict with other things.

Actually, logically they cannot be. What you are committing is what is called an ad hominem fallacy. If they are wrong, then you have to show that they are wrong because of reason(s) x, y, and z. You can't just say that they are wrong because they are extremists or on the lunatic fringe.

If what they say is truly wrong, you should be able to show reasons for that. Tedious and time consuming yes, but if they give "reasons" about what they say then you have to counter them with your own "reasons".

Ad hominem? I should think not. If I inferred than some notion was fraudulent because it's adherents were descended from incestuous warthogs or something, that would be ad hominem. But holding the opposite position, that someone is a fruitcake for the beliefs to which they cleave, most certainly is not.

Be that as it may, it's not incumbent upon a skeptic to disprove anything. Rather it's up to the claimant to confirm its own hypothesis.

...tedious description of a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy that coincidentally has been confirmed by actual data mercifully deleted...

Even a blind pig...

It was known to be true that the earth was the center of the universe and that it was also flat at one time. Imagine if anything that contradicted that was automatically thrown out?

When I say 'things known to be true' I mean things like f=ma, i=e/r, pi=3.14159265, etc. Definitive things from which other things might be derived, not merely widely held opinions.

Also known as the fallacy of tradition. However, don't commit the converse of that as well. Just because it's been around 2400 yrs doesn't mean that it's wrong and needs to go. I'm not saying that you are, I'm just saying that the converse is just as illogical.

One doesn't necessarily follow the other.

The above would seem to be an example of 'denying the antecedent' or 'confirming the consequent'. Either way, if a material implication states if A then B in no way implies that if B then A.

The original point being that having something around for a while does not grant it credentials. That and nothing else.

There is no ability to logically dismiss things outright no matter how lunatic you might think they are. You might miss something that may slightly change your rigid view(not to their viewpoint mind you) to something that is probably just a little different.

Even if it is known, or at least should be known, that they are wrong a priori?

If people give reasons why they think something, then you have to give reasons back as to why you think they are wrong or have things slightly off. That's the biggest complaint that I have is that you are so willing to quickly dismiss things. My first BS degree was in animal science(emphasis in equine) and you do not just dismiss things flat out. You note it and you investigate.

Why is it that most anyone with a degree in anything with 'science' in its name somehow assumes that they are an authority or even conversant with the philosophy of science?

Once again, it's incumbent upon the claimant to support and confirm its own hypothesis. The skeptic is under no obligation to disprove it.

Apropos of nothing, where did and under whom did you study animal science? I ask because I have, or at least used to have, friends and acquaintances in that region of academia.
 

HaroldDesign

New Member
Couldn't help it. Reminded me of an "Andy Rants";

There is nothing like a fusillade of acateleptic verbiage to make even the most puerile asseverations seem the acme of sagacious perspicacity. You too can expectorate verbal pyrotechnics with the application of these abecedarian expedients.

* Haul out the most esoteric and recondite words from the deepest nadir of your lexicon.

* Mix with a salubrious dose of didactic pretension. Be not vexed by accusations of dilettantism. Ignore those who encourage laconic atticism. Allow your fustian argot to coruscate in all its fulgurous resplendence!

* This stratagem is especially efficacious when hurling invective at intractable and contumacious adversaries. Inveigh against their feculent folderol! Pronounce excoriating imprecations! Fulminate bombastically, and toss in acerbic execrations.

* Always remember not to come to the gravamen of your polemics and pasquinades without first obstreperously producing ostentatious pabulum. Pellucid prose serves only to express, but with the proper use of prolix and loquacious pleonasms, one can win approbation through intimidation.

* Genuine erudition is not requisite for the use of grandiloquent verbosity. If you don't recognize a word, it is dubious anyone else will. Throw trichotillomania and theanthropy into a conversation, even without provocation. Bonus points for the proper use of callipygian

Indulge your sesquipedalian predilections! Fear not floccinaucinihilipilification: Even if you are exuding vapid ordure, none will be the wiser.

http://andyrantsandraves.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-use-really-big-words-to-sound.html
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I don't mind looking up the occasional 'bob' word here or there, but that's entirely too many frickin' words to look up. :Sleeping:
 

klemgraphics

New Member
Exactly Gino, I'm not smart enough to comprehend most of that(wish I was). Everything started blurring together as one large mass of letters after the first couple of sentences.

On a side note the arthritis isn't bothering me quite as much today.
 
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