Artwork Copyright Question

[mesheau]

Hey All,

I've been working with a client in a neighbouring city with regards to some reverse channel letters. They mentioned that they would be going to another sign company to get another price. Seems ok.
So, I send along the concept that I created and they seemed to like it. (I actually sent 3 different designs)

Later they came to a conclusion that they were going to go with the 3rd option. Along with this email is the proofsheet from the other sign company. WITH MY ARTWORK ON IT. Talk about outraged, on our proofsheet I state clearly that this artwork belongs to our company and cannot be altered unless consent is given. This is also stated on their proofsheet, so they're claiming the artwork is actually theirs. My boss is taking this fairly lightly as they've been known to do greasy things and he says to expect it. I'm very tempted to send them off and email about asking where the artwork came from etc. Figured I'd take the high road and try to ignore it, unless they end up getting the job that is.

You can see in the artwork I've created the shadowing is different on one of the toes of the paw. Its identical in theirs. Mine is "MAH3p.jpeg"

Whats you're thoughts on this, I've been in the sign industry for a bit but I've never had this happen to me before. Am I overreacting?

 

[rjssigns]

As a rule nobody gets anything unless I get paid. The other thing is when I do send out a comp(electronic) it has our logo blazed across everything at 10% opacity. Image is also flattened and low res. You would have to be really good with PS to get rid of our logo. It is the way I work and what works for our shop. Your results may vary.

 

[mesheau]

As a rule nobody gets anything unless I get paid. The other thing is when I do send out a comp(electronic) it has our logo blazed across everything at 10% opacity. Image is also flattened and low res. You would have to be really good with PS to get rid of our logo. It is the way I work and what works for our shop. Your results may vary.

I usually do a password protected PDF. I find it more appealing then something low res / jpeg. I never thought about watermarking the artwork as well.

I would thing asking for money up front would drive people away, no?

 

[rjssigns]

I usually do a password protected PDF. I find it more appealing then something low res / jpeg. I never thought about watermarking the artwork as well.

I would thing asking for money up front would drive people away, no?

Nope, just weeds out the tire kickers. Clients are welcome to come to the shop and look all they want. Besides if they don't like you or your portfolio you aren't working for them anyway. If they want a comp to take with I get paid. Too many crooked folks out there with zero disregard for your time, much less talent.

 

[visual800]

Im used to folks passing art around. People dont care. Ive received art from other sign companies and was told to "do something like this" and usually I respond with " this art is crap Ill reproduce you my own and the win them over.

clients get low res jpegs from me so if someone has to recreate it good luck! I dont appreciate the passing around of art but it is comical to see others layouts

 

[SightLine]

I usually do a password protected PDF. I find it more appealing then something low res / jpeg. I never thought about watermarking the artwork as well.

I would thing asking for money up front would drive people away, no?

Totally pointless. PDF passwords are a joke, just open the PDF in FlexiSign and export as an ai, eps, etc. Many programs capable of opening PDF files do not care one bit about a password.... asking for money up front is perfectly acceptable for doing any sort of artwork, mockup, etc. Next time you are at a real nice restaurant, tell them to prepare a very nice steak dinner for you, but then also say you want to first see how it looks after they cook and prepare it, then you will decide if you are going to buy and eat it. It's just a matter of discussing things with the customer and explaining the process. 99.9% understand completely and are happy to pay a reasonable deposit.

Like others, we do prepare proofs etc on a page with our logo, usage notice, etc. but ultimately (unless its some massive high $ project on the line) it's pointless to consider trying to enforce it in any way. Of course we generally only require deposits from new customers as well, not existing good clients.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I think the other sign shop is in the wrong here. Regardless of whether or not you were paid up front or some kind of sketch fee or down payment (which I would recommend), the other shop still used the art you spent time creating to bid against you, when it clearly states you are the owner of that work. If a sketch like that came into our shop, we would tell the client we have to design something different.

If they do hire the other shop and they use your layout. Send them a bill for your time. Explain to them they would have had to pay more anyway if the other shop had to spend time creating a design from scratch like you did.

 

[Techman]

Another thread discussing the time tested tradition and the consequences of letting the art get out without some kind of monetary commitment or payment.

In the long run we all should develop a business model that protects our assets. That includes the time used from our life force bank.

One hour used from our life force is lost forever. We should get paid for that. So, instead of worrying about losing a client over asking ot get paid for a design etc. Why not work up a standard script to lead every client through a sales process. Use three or four variations depending on the value of the job. Yard signs get one, production work gets a second script, mid priced stuff gets a third variation, and high end gets a fourth.

Any one who does not fit the model is self disqualifying themselves. Using a set business model will save us time and aggravation and increase the final income.

Preframing is a powerful technique along with getting a small monetary commitment. Those two techniques will increase the closing of that sale by large orders of magnitude.

A good model will remove the speculation factor and reduce the shop around attitude.

Once a model is in place the only worry will be getting the coveted info call.

 

[Flame]

Another thread discussing the time tested tradition and the consequences of letting the art get out without some kind of monetary commitment or payment.

In the long run we all should develop a business model that protects our assets. That includes the time used from our life force bank.

One hour used from our life force is lost forever. We should get paid for that. So, instead of worrying about losing a client over asking ot get paid for a design etc. Why not work up a standard script to lead every client through a sales process. Use three or four variations depending on the value of the job. Yard signs get one, production work gets a second script, mid priced stuff gets a third variation, and high end gets a fourth.

Any one who does not fit the model is self disqualifying themselves. Using a set business model will save us time and aggravation and increase the final income.

Preframing is a powerful technique along with getting a small monetary commitment. Those two techniques will increase the closing of that sale by large orders of magnitude.

A good model will remove the speculation factor and reduce the shop around attitude.

Once a model is in place the only worry will be getting the coveted info call.

What this guy just said. Primo advice.

 

[Rick]

When you say "artwork", what did you do?

Did you design the logo? or just reproduced the logo? or did they supply you with the logo?

If thats your logo design, then the sign shop ripped you off, or did they? Maybe the client forwarding that .pdf saying it was theirs... someone had to give them that logo.

I can't tell from here, but you might want to stop designing logos for free to sell signs.

 

[2B]

As a rule nobody gets anything unless I get paid. The other thing is when I do send out a comp(electronic) it has our logo blazed across everything at 10% opacity. Image is also flattened and low res. You would have to be really good with PS to get rid of our logo. It is the way I work and what works for our shop. Your results may vary.

NOTHING is sent without a watermark on it, no matter how "loyal" the customer is or how "simple" the design is.

 

[HillHouseGraphics]

The Lesson that I learned

A couple years ago, I spent about 4 or 5 hours designing a wrap for a local restaurant after meeting with them for an hour and talking to them for a half hour before that. I never got the wrap job and I supposed that it was just another loss. Last year, I was in traffic and saw my design running down the highway beside me. I was furious and a little bitter, but it eventually dawned on me that it was more my fault than anyone elses as I did not get a deposit, retainer or design fee.

I still design some jobs without a deposit, but I have to be careful to know who I am working for and to let them know the value of what I am doing and yes, I have lost a job or two to competitors who have worked from my stolen work, but I figure that the clients that would do that would be a client who I would not want anyhow.

 

[Pro Image]

Hey All,

I've been working with a client in a neighbouring city with regards to some reverse channel letters. They mentioned that they would be going to another sign company to get another price. Seems ok.
So, I send along the concept that I created and they seemed to like it. (I actually sent 3 different designs)

Later they came to a conclusion that they were going to go with the 3rd option. Along with this email is the proofsheet from the other sign company. WITH MY ARTWORK ON IT. Talk about outraged, on our proofsheet I state clearly that this artwork belongs to our company and cannot be altered unless consent is given. This is also stated on their proofsheet, so they're claiming the artwork is actually theirs. My boss is taking this fairly lightly as they've been known to do greasy things and he says to expect it. I'm very tempted to send them off and email about asking where the artwork came from etc. Figured I'd take the high road and try to ignore it, unless they end up getting the job that is.

You can see in the artwork I've created the shadowing is different on one of the toes of the paw. Its identical in theirs. Mine is "MAH3p.jpeg"

Whats you're thoughts on this, I've been in the sign industry for a bit but I've never had this happen to me before. Am I overreacting?

What kind of dog do you have in this fight....????? You work for you BOSS and if hes not mad you need to get over it and go back to work.......Its not your place to send off email and fuss about this and that.....Its the OWNERS place to do that.....

 

[Salmoneye]

Shops put those disclaimers on every proof they make. If a customer brought that to me I would ask them if the shop designed the art on spec of if the customer owned the art and had supplied it to the other shop. In the end I let what the client tells me determine ownership. On our new work orders they also have to sign to the fact that they have legal right to any artwork that they provide or want reproduced. Beyond that I can't spend hours investigating actual ownership of intellectual property. If someone comes in and wants 20 copies of a book copied and 1/2 of it is plagiarized I also can't be responsible for that. If I saw spec art of mine running around town or in an add or??? I would kindly send a reasonable bill for artwork services rendered with a brief explanation as to why.