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At A Crossroad, To Keep Going or Call It A Day?

A

AlishaP

New Member
My husband and I have zero experience in the sign, graphics and vinyl world.
However we sort of had the industry take us on quite an exciting year for us last year and we really enjoy designing, creating and seeing the finished product.
Its really a very rewarding career - to us. Its not all about the money because we truly enjoy the industry but we still have to eat and we have to keep the roof over our heads.
We have teamed up with local grandformat shops. We have done some networking - we are in Ontario, Canada and have been in a perpetual state of lockdown making networking difficult, especially without really knowing how the industry works.
We have made some money but honestly not enough to live off of. Our savings account is really suffering. We can still keep going like this for a little bit longer but I feel like this needs to be a turning point - either go big or go home.
My husband does all of the work I help with admin and design when I can, as I have to work myself.
We work exclusively out of our home. Shop is set up in the basement as we do not have a garage.
I feel like this really is impacting sales dramatically, I may be wrong of course I have no experience in this kind of thing.
We are constantly getting these small jobs, small sign here, staff shirts there, labels here, a small perf job there, banners here and there. You get the point.
We have talks of these big sign jobs, big event jobs, fleet graphics blah blah blah. Its all people talking a big talk because nothing seems to come to a head.
Because of all this talk for these jobs come spring we have located and secured a shop. We are supposed to sign the lease this week but I am very much so getting cold feet.
I know what the numbers need to be to make this work and I cannot say that in the past six months we have hit that target every month.. however I go back to the theory its because we do not have a location, we are unable to network as we would like, we are unable to market the way we would want to because of being in the house. Truly we rely on facebook listings and ads. Its becoming sad. But things do roll in.
Anyways back to my point, we are at a crossroads. Do we send my husband back to work and call this quits. Keep taking on these little guys on the weekends as a little side cash to stash away for an annual trip or get the shop. Do what he loves to do and if you build it they will come.
I dont know.
Looking for advice, experiences, anything.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
Toronto is very cutthroat for the digital printing world.


You can't throw a rock without hitting five print shops, and because of so much competition prices are so low there.. on top of being one of the most expensive cities to live in.

I'm not saying give up, but I would take a step back look at how much money you need to make in order to survive and see whether those goals are reachable in a time frame you are comfortable with.

You could be working for 5 years before you start making as much as you would just working for somebody else, unless of course you find a niche that nobody else does.
 
A

AlishaP

New Member
ikarasu said:
Toronto is very cutthroat for the digital printing world.


You can't throw a rock without hitting five print shops, and because of so much competition prices are so low there.. on top of being one of the most expensive cities to live in.

I'm not saying give up, but I would take a step back look at how much money you need to make in order to survive and see whether those goals are reachable in a time frame you are comfortable with.

You could be working for 5 years before you start making as much as you would just working for somebody else, unless of course you find a niche that nobody else does.
Click to expand...
You are very right.
I wonder if this is the case in most cities? I guess I just assumed everywhere was like it is here.
We have thought about moving out of Ontario for other reasons but with this perspective im wondering if for better opportunities for work aswell.
 
Troy Lesher

Troy Lesher

New Member
I will share some thoughts...not particularly advise per se.... I feel that when we get to a spot we dont really know what to do (me included) is that weve got to a spot we didnt plan for. this is a place where we take the time and prepare a business plan from scratch, this should force us out of the situation and look at it from a completely logical standpoint...where did we start and how did we get to this point. backtrack and map it out. Now that you know how you got HERE, make your plan on moving forward with the current knowledge you have. Identify goals, short and Long term, make sure your short term goals lead you to your long term goals, set measurable parameters and timelines, and concentrate on hitting the short term goals because that is immediate, and its a stairstep to the long term ones. I know this sounds terribly remedial but back to basics, clear the head and make it your bitch! There is a reason there are so many shops, because there is that much business. our industry is growing at 6-9% annually find your niche and own it. WE all have to re-invent and re-junivate ourselves on a regular basis. at the end of the day its a lot easier building on something existing than to quit and start over. Good Luck with whatever your decision is, just remember the harder I work, the luckier I get!
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I would hold off on signing a lease if you are unsure, it's a big commitment. There are so many variables in this industry that it is 100% possible to run a very successful business without a storefront, we have a shop, but we are tucked away in an industrial park, we have almost no walk in traffic, and that's the way we like it, people walking in to discuss a $50 banner and wasting 20 minutes of your time are profit leaches.

You need to sit down and write up a business plan, and go from there.
 
De.signs Nanaimo

De.signs Nanaimo

New Member
I have been working out of my house for 11 years and am so glad I did due to the current state of the world. One major factor in starting my business though was that I operate in a small city that has poor sign shops for the most part, so there was room for me to open up, although in a city of about 100,000 we have around 25 sign shops!

Southern Ontario is the most competitive market in Canada, but there are plenty of small cities and towns with room for a good shop. You guys need experience though, I had 15 years working in signs shops before I went out on my own and I can do everything needed for my shop by myself. The number one factor in signs is the production, it doesn't matter what you can sell if you can't produce the product efficiently and with very few mistakes. It took me about three years before I was supporting myself, then another two before my wife quit her job and works at home now too. It was blind luck I decided not to rush expansion so my overhead has been almost nothing during the pandemic.

In my opinion your best ROI right now is education and experience, there are major hiccups coming in the world economy this year, the worst so far since 2019 so buckle up and minimize your monthly bills if at all possible!
 
A

AlishaP

New Member
De.signs Nanaimo said:
I have been working out of my house for 11 years and am so glad I did due to the current state of the world. One major factor in starting my business though was that I operate in a small city that has poor sign shops for the most part, so there was room for me to open up, although in a city of about 100,000 we have around 25 sign shops!

Southern Ontario is the most competitive market in Canada, but there are plenty of small cities and towns with room for a good shop. You guys need experience though, I had 15 years working in signs shops before I went out on my own and I can do everything needed for my shop by myself. The number one factor in signs is the production, it doesn't matter what you can sell if you can't produce the product efficiently and with very few mistakes. It took me about three years before I was supporting myself, then another two before my wife quit her job and works at home now too. It was blind luck I decided not to rush expansion so my overhead has been almost nothing during the pandemic.

In my opinion your best ROI right now is education and experience, there are major hiccups coming in the world economy this year, the worst so far since 2019 so buckle up and minimize your monthly bills if at all possible!
Click to expand...
I agree with everything your saying and I also think we should probably wait on the shop. We should also gain experience.
We happily would offer services at no cost for experience (as we have all year until we are fully confident in the product)
Our goal really is to focus on vehicle graphics as that seems to be what people contact us about.
However this is really impossible to offer in our house without a garage.
So we are stuck at banners, apparel, stickers etc. The introductory items that really dont bring in very much money.
There is about 20 sign shops within this area which is made up of 5 cities and none of them are hiring or looking for any help - even free help...
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
In just about any business/industry, most businesses will fizzle out within the first to second year for all kindsa reasons. No reflection on you or your business. As mentioned, if ya can make it 5 years, you're probably gonna make something of it. If you're foundering within your first year, you need to take a hard look at your expenses now....... none and add what overhead is gonna be added on with electric, rent, water, heat, insurances, licenses and many other unforeseen issues. Do you think you can handle all that additional expense ??

Opening a new sign shop is like opening a new pizza shop. People will come and test the waters. If it's good all around, you'll start developing a customer base with repeat work. If it's not so hot, they probably won't be back. Besides, people are always testing the waters by asking you about big projects. If you have nothing to show them as far as past jobs or just knowledge, they'll most likely pass you by and let you down easy.

Be brutally honest with your business and what you're doing, then decide if you need help to get your business to the next level, before you go financially to the next level without a product.
 
De.signs Nanaimo

De.signs Nanaimo

New Member
AlishaP said:
I agree with everything your saying and I also think we should probably wait on the shop. We should also gain experience.
We happily would offer services at no cost for experience (as we have all year until we are fully confident in the product)
Our goal really is to focus on vehicle graphics as that seems to be what people contact us about.
However this is really impossible to offer in our house without a garage.
So we are stuck at banners, apparel, stickers etc. The introductory items that really dont bring in very much money.
There is about 20 sign shops within this area which is made up of 5 cities and none of them are hiring or looking for any help - even free help...
Click to expand...
One thing I did when first starting up with vehicles was to offer on site installation, in the winter you can offer to install in the clients garage or shop, in the summer I have done installs on the side of the street and in driveways. I even installed for a house inspector at the house he was inspecting while he worked!
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
AlishaP said:
I agree with everything your saying and I also think we should probably wait on the shop. We should also gain experience.
We happily would offer services at no cost for experience (as we have all year until we are fully confident in the product)
Our goal really is to focus on vehicle graphics as that seems to be what people contact us about.
However this is really impossible to offer in our house without a garage.
So we are stuck at banners, apparel, stickers etc. The introductory items that really dont bring in very much money.
There is about 20 sign shops within this area which is made up of 5 cities and none of them are hiring or looking for any help - even free help...
Click to expand...
As someone in Southern Ontario, Every shop I speak to is desperate to hire shop help, we just hired someone after looking for months, I have another shop we work with that has been looking for someone decent for almost 2 years.

Are you interested in offering vehicle graphics, or is it just what most people enquire about? My experience has been that vinyl lettering on work trucks is fine, but wraps are best left to wrap shops, as someone who doesn't do wraps, it takes me 3 times as long to install a wrap then it does for someone who does this all day long, and it doesn't look nearly as good, now no one is going to pay me 3x what the wrap shop down the street charges, so if I take a wrap job, I end up making 1/3 of my normal hourly rate, to do something I don't enjoy in the first place.

I have certain products that we make well and we are very efficient at making, I can make much more money producing those rather then messing around with a wrap for 2 days.

Like I said earlier, sit down, write up a business plan, I would be happy t review it with you if you like.
 
J

jorgolush

New Member
AlishaP said:
My husband and I have zero experience in the sign, graphics and vinyl world.
However we sort of had the industry take us on quite an exciting year for us last year and we really enjoy designing, creating and seeing the finished product.
Its really a very rewarding career - to us. Its not all about the money because we truly enjoy the industry but we still have to eat and we have to keep the roof over our heads.
We have teamed up with local grandformat shops. We have done some networking - we are in Ontario, Canada and have been in a perpetual state of lockdown making networking difficult, especially without really knowing how the industry works.
We have made some money but honestly not enough to live off of. Our savings account is really suffering. We can still keep going like this for a little bit longer but I feel like this needs to be a turning point - either go big or go home.
My husband does all of the work I help with admin and design when I can, as I have to work myself.
We work exclusively out of our home. Shop is set up in the basement as we do not have a garage.
I feel like this really is impacting sales dramatically, I may be wrong of course I have no experience in this kind of thing.
We are constantly getting these small jobs, small sign here, staff shirts there, labels here, a small perf job there, banners here and there. You get the point.
We have talks of these big sign jobs, big event jobs, fleet graphics blah blah blah. Its all people talking a big talk because nothing seems to come to a head.
Because of all this talk for these jobs come spring we have located and secured a shop. We are supposed to sign the lease this week but I am very much so getting cold feet.
I know what the numbers need to be to make this work and I cannot say that in the past six months we have hit that target every month.. however I go back to the theory its because we do not have a location, we are unable to network as we would like, we are unable to market the way we would want to because of being in the house. Truly we rely on facebook listings and ads. Its becoming sad. But things do roll in.
Anyways back to my point, we are at a crossroads. Do we send my husband back to work and call this quits. Keep taking on these little guys on the weekends as a little side cash to stash away for an annual trip or get the shop. Do what he loves to do and if you build it they will come.
I dont know.
Looking for advice, experiences, anything.
Click to expand...
Believe me, it's exhausting to have your own shop. I used to broker a lot of large format jobs back in 2010. there was no better feeling than knowing I sold the job, managed it properly, made the customer happy and made a huge chunk of money. From my house. In 2013 we had pivoted to designing and producing retail displays and fixtures. I thought I was doing the right thing by leasing a 4K square ft bldg, buying an HP and a Zund to "cut out the middle man". expanded to bldg next door, started doing fulfillment. then at the end of 2019 leased another adjacent bldg for a total of 12K square feet, had 8 employees and BAM. covid. went from having 600K in company savings to being about 400K in debt. We're coming out of it, thankfully, but now when we make 50K off a single job, I think of it as only a month's worth of overhead, where as before when I was brokering, that money went into my personal bank account and give me some cushion - I had it made. Sales cures everything. If you can sit with a client and instill in them a confidence that you are the person that can take this unorganized project off their plate and get it done right at a fair price, you can sell printing. You'll find a few local large print companies willing to negotiate a wholesale price with you. I tell my customers that by "partnering" with larger companies, I have instant access to the latest greatest technology that's twice as fast and prints for less, I get to sell print on that machine. I'm still brokering large jobs. I'm a great asset to the companies that I broker through. No salary/draw, no healthcare, no sick days, raises, expense accounts, federal employee tax etc. All you need is one decent sized account ( and limited overhead ) to change your lifestyle. how many nights have you both stayed up to run a "big" job? how many times did a oversight, or mistake cause you to re-do a job and erase your profit? do the little jobs ( we started a 250.00 minimum policy to weed out the time suckers)
in your basement, but sell as if you owned the biggest shop in town and take it to them when you get it. let them run it on their third shift. when you've professionally managed the pre flight and work order/Purchase order and the job's not done correctly, guess who's pays for the time and materials it takes to re print?
Caveat- You must act as your customers representative in all matters. You are ultimately responsible for any mistakes, whether they are made by the printer or broker. If you mis-manage the order and don't put your own eyes on everything that needs to be approved, when the job is done wrong and it's your fault, guess who pays for it to be run again correctly?

TL:DR (too long didn't read) Sales cures everything. When you operate as a project manager you transcend the salesperson stereotype and have value-added ground to stand on when a customer tries to grind you on the price. There will always be someone willing do do it for less money, do everything in your power to avoid being that person.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
I don't think that you need to rent a space and also agree with what Johnny said.
Make a plan, follow it and keep grinding out of your house for now. If he hates his old job enough, you will make this work.
 
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