attaching ACM to steel frame

[tulsagraphics]

Hi all!

I'm attaching 4x8 sheets of ACM to this double-sided steel frame (recessed). The frame has since been primed/painted black.

As you can see, there's plenty to screw to, but the client would like to keep the # of fasteners to a minimum (for aesthetics).

What type of adhesive would be suitable for ACM <-> painted steel?

 

[Gino]

What thickness acm ??

 

[tulsagraphics]

3mm Omega-bond

 

[CanuckSigns]

I would use VHB tape and try to convince the client to allow you to put 2 small screws in the top corners, painted to Match the background, no one will ever see them.

 

[Gino]

Put two more uprights in there and use proper screws. Over time, no tape is gonna hold a 4 x 8 in that set up...... not professionally. Ya need about 12 physical fasteners to do it right.... or go home.

Don't matter what the client wants, it's what is needed is the final answer.

Also, I'd use 6mm.

 

[JBurton]

Put two more uprights in there and use proper screws. Over time, no tape is gonna hold a 4 x 8 in that set up...... not professionally. Ya need about 12 physical fasteners to do it right.... or go home.

Eh, I'd let them get away with 8 screws and only one additional upright, as long as they face both sides. This will dramatically reduce the load of a face being blown out, faces getting blown in on a cabinet with a lip is far less likely. Now a cross wind sucking it out in the middle of tornado alley is another story, but that looks like a church, and tornadoes fall under acts of god, so they'll be fine...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Do NOT use a single sheet of 3mm. If using one sheet, do 6mm. Paint the fastener heads and small washers to match background. If you evenly space them every 2' it won't be an eyesore. If you have a solid backer board, you can VHB the hell out of it and stick it to that.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Actually I do have 6mm Alumalite on hand too. (lettering hasn’t been applied yet) No doubt it would be stronger.

Do you think additional supports would be necessary with Alumalite? Difference in cost for upgrading to Alumalite should be cheaper than hiring a welder to add supports.

Note: it's a double-sided sign (2 separate faces, 1 on each side of a 2" thick frame)

 

[somcalmetim]

If money is no object you could install a 6mm sheet of ACM or outdoor plywood with lots of countersunk screws/bolts on each side as structure then VHB a nice sheet of 3mm ACM overtop with your graphics showing no visible screws at all. Note: assuing the VHB sign stays in place it will likely destroy the sign if you ever want to take it down but could likely be face wrapped again in place if they need to rebrand.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Actually I do have 6mm Alumalite on hand too. (lettering hasn’t been applied yet) No doubt it would be stronger.

Do you think additional supports would be necessary with Alumalite? Difference in cost for upgrading to Alumalite should be cheaper than hiring a welder to add supports.

Note: it's a double-sided sign (2 separate faces, 1 on each side of a 2" thick frame)

If you're using two sheets of 6mm I wouldn't worry about any supports. You could do one 6mm sheet and sandwich it with angle around the edges on the open side and it would be fine too. Don't forget to bring something to nip the corners so they don't catch on the welds.

 

[tulsagraphics]

If you're using two sheets of 6mm I wouldn't worry about any supports. You could do one 6mm sheet and sandwich it with angle around the edges on the open side and it would be fine too. Don't forget to bring something to nip the corners so they don't catch on the welds.

Right on. No worries about the welds. The inner frame dimensions are 96.5 x 48.5, giving a 1/4" gap on all sides.

 

[Ryze Signs]

If you could fill in the space between the faces with a cheap substrate such as wood or foam you could laminate the whole thing together and use no fasters. You would essentially be creating your own composite panel sandwiched around the frame. This would also stiffen your faces so they won't flex in the wind. Lords adhesive or a urethane such as gorilla glue would be my adhesives of choice. Polystyrene foam would be my filler. You'd be shocked at how sturdy this would be. Just google structural insulated panels.

 

[Broome Signs]

use two sheets
fold each one into a tray,
fit trays over steel frames and fix to outer frame


PB

 

[visual800]

scuff the ends of the maxmetal and silicone it, it will not fail esspecially if another sheet is on other side, thats how I would do it if they didnt want screws BUT it would be nice if the 4 screws could be in corners

 

[GraphixGirl79]

Hi all!

I'm attaching 4x8 sheets of ACM to this double-sided steel frame (recessed). The frame has since been primed/painted black.

As you can see, there's plenty to screw to, but the client would like to keep the # of fasteners to a minimum (for aesthetics).

What type of adhesive would be suitable for ACM <-> painted steel?

We use a product called Lord Adhesive, but we're in Canada and you might not have that product in the US. assuming your in the states. ha.

 

[Bradley D]

If you don't want to screw it a continuous bead of MMA adhesive would work. MP55420 can be bought at the sign supply store.

 

[JBurton]

We use a product called Lord Adhesive, but we're in Canada and you might not have that product in the US. assuming your in the states. ha.

Things that are no fun in my book.
1. Using construction adhesive on site, or after any level of 'finishing', be it print or paint.
2. Affixing something as cheap as ACM with something as permanent as construction adhesive.
3. Construction adhesive on paint only has the holding power that already exists between the paint and the substrate, which can be just fine, but for something that may have been painted on site, prep is almost always p*ss poor.

 

[signheremd]

listen to Texas_Signmaker, Gino, and JBurton - they all gave good advice. Your client doesn't know anything about high winds and signs. VHB tape or construction adhesives are only as good as the hold the paint has, and on iron signs the paint only haolds as good as the prep cleaning and the primer... which you have no way of knowing. 3mm ACM at 4x8 is too flimsy in a frame like this - fine on a wall. You should be using 6mm. As far as the screws go, you can spray paint them black beforehand if you can't find blacks ones and that should help calm their resistance to using them. If they are looking for the look of a post and panel sign, remember they have a built in slot so the panel has back support all the way around. Those are my thoughts.

 

[Gino]

It's not about good advice, but we're been around the block a time or two or 64. No need to make this thing withstand a cat 4 hurricane, but you're out near tornado alley. You might wanna consider what high winds come through and make your decision based off of that. Even around here, we get winds of 65 mph quite frequently throughout the year.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

A tornado will destroy anything... but Oklahoma gets constant wind in the winter months.. more than TX does. Months of it being 30-40 mph all day and night will work on a sign.