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Attaching sign to building...

Tony Rome

Tony Rome

New Member
I was wondering if someone could tell me the best (right) way to attach an aluminum sign (3'x9') to a building with aluminum siding.
I would imagine there are some type of brackets or spacers that go between the sign and the siding. I doubt I just screw into siding.
Any help is appreciated, sorry first time with this one.
THANKS!
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
Depends on what the customer wants. If they want it flush, then you can screw into the siding. You can also use VHB tape and silicone.

If they want it stood off from the fascia, you use brackets, but you still have to screw into the siding. If screwing, you should use silicone to seal the penetrations.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
In our area, we make suggestions to the customer.... afterwards it has to be signed off by the municipality codes officer when obtaining a permit.

Did your codes person have any comments on what is permissible or not ??
 
Tony Rome

Tony Rome

New Member
This customer is one of those that I know well and will just tell me to do what I think is best. I think there is a sign on the building there now that has a little space from the siding, I will have to go back and look.
So I am thinking I will do that, what are these brackets, and where can I get them?
Also, is it my responsibility to know how much signage he is allowed to have? In the past I just do what I am asked and count on the customer to know what he is allowed to have on his building.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
It's however you set up your policy or mode of operation.... Modes operandi.

In my opinion, since I'm the sign guy, I feel it's about 95% my responsibility.

Since almost every municipality, city, borough, township or village has it's own rules.... and yes, some even change according to what street you are putting up the signs, or what district you're in, there is no way I can know all of the codes. Therefore, I will tell them they can either find out on their own and get the papers on it, or I can do it for a fee, which does not include obtaining the permit.

Yes, if someone asks you to make a sign and you make it by their description, and when they go to hang it it doesn't meet code, I would probably blame you for not at least telling them to at least search it out, first to avoid such a problem. If they had me make the sign and YOU were putting it up, I would blame you 100%, because when applying for the permit, you would've known all about this before you started.
 
B

brian_fellers

New Member
When I did permit drawings for the Sign Company I worked for, it was MY responsbility to KNOW the code for which municipality the sign would be installed, and this knowledge was incorporated into the permit fee, which the customer paid. Usually $500 for non-electrical permit, $600 for electrical. (This fee covered the Engineer fee, permit drawings, knowing the codes, and inspections). The cost of the permit itself was billed at cost, after sign has been installed.

I can tell you now, I did a permit drawing for a 4'x8' 6mil Maxmetal sign, and they installed it into Aluminum siding using toggle bolts, with 1" aluminum spacers behind the sign to lift it off the fascia. You can get regular aluminum tubing, and have it cut into 1" (or any other size) pieces.
 
B

brian_fellers

New Member
Tony Rome said:
Thanks guys, how about the brackets though, any recommendations?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Use the aluminum spacers I told you about. The spacer will lift it off the fascia, cut the spacers however long you want them (1", 2", etc.), place them behind the sign and run the bolt through it.

If you want to do the bracket instead, you can pick it up at Home Depot, just a simple L type bracket will work.
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
Gino said:
In our area, we make suggestions to the customer.... afterwards it has to be signed off by the municipality codes officer when obtaining a permit.

Did your codes person have any comments on what is permissible or not ??
Click to expand...


Man I would hate to have to ask our local "idiot inspectors" about this. They would have us install steel supports going into the studs and then tack welding the sign to it even though its aluminum. Do they really check all this in PA?

For siding I would use fasteners and hit the high spots but do NOT drive the screws down deep, just to where they hit the material
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
bdyer32 said:
Tony:

Go to this website: http://www.municode.com you can look up signage code in your local area, most municipalities can be accessed here.

If you can't find your city listed there, then check this one: http://www.amlegal.com

One of these 2 links will help you.
Click to expand...

Agreed on Municode or Amlegal. You can also just try the city's website in which the install location is in. They'll usually have their codes accessible or more often than not they'll link to one of the aforementioned sites.

It's typically faster to look up the regulations yourself rather than try to get a city official/employee on the phone and try to get the specs from them. Most don't know them off the top of their heads (or don't care enough to be of any real assistance).

If going this route, you will likely have to call the city with the install address first and obtain the zoning for that location then reference the sign reg's for that particular zoning.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
Aside from all the code & permit issues, you need to know what is under that siding. That is what you'll be fastening to.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
visual800;1068280[SIZE=1 said:
]Man[/SIZE] I would hate to have to ask our local "idiot inspectors" about this. They would have us install steel supports going into the studs and then tack welding the sign to it even though its aluminum. Do they really check all this in PA?

For siding I would use fasteners and hit the high spots but do NOT drive the screws down deep, just to where they hit the material
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's a b!tch, but then that's why many sign people advocate getting involved with your local authorities on this stuff to get things corrected or have better knowledge on so many variables. I'[m sure it's not like this throughout the entire state, but it really is supposed to be. Honestly, it is for everyone saftey and countryside cleanliness. I despise sign littering and abuse.

We have one borough around here [and we do a lot of work in this area], where they actually have a girl whose main job is to ride around the borough and take pictures and notes on nothing but signs. She's been doing this for a great many years. We lettered her truck. No one likes her, but let me tell you, illegal or badly installed signs don't exist, because she's on it. I'm in tight with her and she calls me on various problems and I give my input, but tell her to get two more opinions every time.
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
Granted - they're doing their jobs, but there are a ton of horror stories involving inspectors and code compliance officials.

This was some years back in a local city......the inspector was a woman that was known to be very strict. The sign company I was working for installed a pylon sign in a location that was very difficult to access. The code stated that the sign couldn't overhang the sidewalk. She literally got a ladder and climbed up with a plumb bob and hung it off the corner of the sign. The sign hung over the sidewalk by about 1". She made them fix it. I'm not sure what was required on this particular sign to fix the issue (shorten the cabinet I assume) but there are some sticklers out there.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Moze said:
Granted - they're doing their jobs, but there are a ton of horror stories involving inspectors and code compliance officials.

This was some years back in a local city......the inspector was a woman that was known to be very strict. The sign company I was working for installed a pylon sign in a location that was very difficult to access. The code stated that the sign couldn't overhang the sidewalk. She literally got a ladder and climbed up with a plumb bob and hung it off the corner of the sign. The sign hung over the sidewalk by about 1". She made them fix it. I'm not sure what was required on this particular sign to fix the issue (shorten the cabinet I assume) but there are some sticklers out there.
Click to expand...


I get it and there are some doozies out there, but let me ask you a question. Was she right or wrong ?? Was the sign installed incorrectly ??

Granted, it shouldn't have been needed to fix, but it was breaking the law. There is no grey matter in law. It either is legal or it's not. If they would've applied for a variance, I'm sure that would've fixed it and shut her up.

See, what happens to the sign Nazis is that, if someone gets away with an inch, the next guy is three inches and then seven inches until it's a foot. Once the law have been breached, where can one draw the line ?? I understand her stoopidness to keep law and order, but it was stoopid on such a project.
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
I absolutely agree that she was in the right - I wasn't defending the install crew. I was more making the point that people will often find out what the regulations are and figure "close enough" is acceptable and then get mad when they're told their 4' x 10' sign has to come down because they exceeded the 32 sq. ft. allowable area.

Bottom line is there will always be people that purposely TRY to take advantage/exceed regulations and I think it's especially true of it's a female inspector. So I don't blame her for being that stringent. She has a reputation for being that way which might not gain her friends by those trying to push the limits (so what?) but it keeps everyone else in line. I say good for her.
 
Marlene

Marlene

New Member
Aside from all the code & permit issues, you need to know what is under that siding. That is what you'll be fastening to.
Click to expand...

that is important to know for sure.

have you made the sign? if not, 90 degree bends on all 4 sides so that the sign becomes a pan. mount 1" x 1" aluminum to the siding and then mount the pan to that.
 
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