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Avery Failures Return

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Andy D

Active Member
I have this argument with the sales team all the time, They don't understand why I insist on using 3M Translucent for almost every job when
brand "x" IS cheaper, looks just as good and they're rated for the same amount of outdoors years... And I keep telling them, besides the fact that many of our corporate
clients spec 3M, and trying to keep up with five different bands of vinyl will be more expensive in the long run, due to redo's.. the reason 3M can charge more
is because of their QUALITY CONTROL , that is the only thing that separates high quality vinyl, inks, substrates, whatever.. from the crap. Some companies understand
that but many don't, just as some sign shops understand that but many don't.
 
reQ

reQ

New Member
Andy D said:
I have this argument with the sales team all the time, They don't understand why I insist on using 3M Translucent for almost every job when
brand "x" IS cheaper, looks just as good and they're rated for the same amount of outdoors years... And I keep telling them, besides the fact that many of our corporate
clients spec 3M, and trying to keep up with five different bands of vinyl will be more expensive in the long run, due to redo's.. the reason 3M can charge more
is because of their QUALITY CONTROL , that is the only thing that separates high quality vinyl, inks, substrates, whatever.. from the crap. Some companies understand
that but many don't, just as some sign shops understand that but many don't.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all depends who your customer is. Usually everyone say THEY DO UNDERSTAND about the quality & you get what you pay for but at the end go with cheaper option.
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
Andy D said:
I have this argument with the sales team all the time, They don't understand why I insist on using 3M Translucent for almost every job when
brand "x" IS cheaper, looks just as good and they're rated for the same amount of outdoors years... And I keep telling them, besides the fact that many of our corporate
clients spec 3M, and trying to keep up with five different bands of vinyl will be more expensive in the long run, due to redo's.. the reason 3M can charge more
is because of their QUALITY CONTROL , that is the only thing that separates high quality vinyl, inks, substrates, whatever.. from the crap. Some companies understand
that but many don't, just as some sign shops understand that but many don't.
Click to expand...

I've had just as many QC issues with 3M as I have with any other vinyl manufacturer. Just recently we had to send back a roll of IJ40 because it had tiny little specs of something white rolled up with the vinyl that caused an ink void on the printed surface. Granted my supplier took it back no questions asked and gave me a new roll from a different lot #, but i've heard multiple stories on here of guys getting dead bugs etc. in their rolls of IJ180.

I agree with you about limiting your stock to make life easier, but 3M is not more expensive because of their quality control, they are more expensive because it says 3M on the backer
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
watsons signs said:
I've had just as many QC issues with 3M as I have with any other vinyl manufacturer. Just recently we had to send back a roll of IJ40 because it had tiny little specs of something white rolled up with the vinyl that caused an ink void on the printed surface. Granted my supplier took it back no questions asked and gave me a new roll from a different lot #, but i've heard multiple stories on here of guys getting dead bugs etc. in their rolls of IJ180.

I agree with you about limiting your stock to make life easier, but 3M is not more expensive because of their quality control, they are more expensive because it says 3M on the backer
Click to expand...


Sadly this isn't true. 3M's quality control is top notch compared to Avery. I've used thousands of miles of this stuff. 3M has it's issues, but the QC is top notch for their type of production.
 
A

Andy D

Active Member
watsons signs said:
I've had just as many QC issues with 3M as I have with any other vinyl manufacturer. Just recently we had to send back a roll of IJ40 because it had tiny little specs of something white rolled up with the vinyl that caused an ink void on the printed surface. Granted my supplier took it back no questions asked and gave me a new roll from a different lot #, but i've heard multiple stories on here of guys getting dead bugs etc. in their rolls of IJ180.

I agree with you about limiting your stock to make life easier, but 3M is not more expensive because of their quality control, they are more expensive because it says 3M on the backer
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with you, but I have using their 3630 series for about 15 years, I bought thousands of 4' x 50 yard rolls, and can't remember having any issues except for splices, and haven't
even seen a splice for years.... maybe it's just that department, or if they sub it out, whoever they sub it to. Almost all of my printing stock is Oracal.
 
DirtyD

DirtyD

New Member
I haven't had any issues with 3M materials print materials or cut...I use 3M trans cut and Oracal Calendared/Cast cut. I decided to use Avery 1005 on my shop truck and 1st time buying it I get lots of verticle scratch looking marks in the print (not from the rollers) and they sent me a new roll. But have never had issues with 3M
 
ams

ams

New Member
Just remember that Avery is now top coating their materials and you cannot laminate them anymore.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
ams said:
Just remember that Avery is now top coating their materials and you cannot laminate them anymore.
Click to expand...

You mean, no one will be printing to vinyl, but to their laminate ?? Seems that would hold them responsible for any and ALL FOBARS.

You hafta have something wrong in this one, once again. :banghead:​
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
ams said:
Just remember that Avery is now top coating their materials and you cannot laminate them anymore.
Click to expand...

Even if I didn't like a product, I wouldn't make fact statements about their production unless it was true.
Are you sure it is a fact that: A) they are topcoating and B) you can't laminate anymore?
Those are 2 claims I'd be nervous about making, especially if people can state online in response to your statements, that they no longer will buy Avery anymore because of your statement. That is fodder for Defamation or Libel.
 
B

brentjosker

New Member
We just switched from the avery 1105 to the arlon slx flight. The problem i am seeing with the new product is in production, the material is really thin 1.5 mil and it tear really easy before you put the lam on it, the print is okay nothing special, the fact that i can pull the entire release liner off of it and reposition it as many times as i want is amazing. It doesnt become aggresive until you put pressure on it or until you apply heat.
The selling point also. 821.00 for the combo, print media and lam.
Check it out
 
ams

ams

New Member
Kentucky Wraps said:
Even if I didn't like a product, I wouldn't make fact statements about their production unless it was true.
Are you sure it is a fact that: A) they are topcoating and B) you can't laminate anymore?
Those are 2 claims I'd be nervous about making, especially if people can state online in response to your statements, that they no longer will buy Avery anymore because of your statement. That is fodder for Defamation or Libel.
Click to expand...

That is directly from the Avery rep himself. I called Avery and talked to one of their tech guys and he flat out told me yes they top coated it so you don't have to laminate anymore, however laminate will not stick to it. So go sue Avery for making that claim. You are a sad sad person to think I am going to start spreading lies about Avery.
 
Zac

Zac

Mediocre Designer
ams said:
That is directly from the Avery rep himself. I called Avery and talked to one of their tech guys and he flat out told me yes they top coated it so you don't have to laminate anymore, however laminate will not stick to it. So go sue Avery for making that claim. You are a sad sad person to think I am going to start spreading lies about Avery.
Click to expand...

Just because you trumpify your statement doesn't mean it's true. Was it a rep or a tech? Both, sure. [HASHTAG]#FakeNews[/HASHTAG]

If they were talking about color change material (SW900), sure. You don't have to laminate color change besides chromes. Your statement sounds pretty ridiculous either way you put it without naming the product to verify.

Especially when you call someone a "sad sad man" for asking 'huh?' for making such an ignorant, unspecific comment to THE forum of people who care and should have accurate information when it comes to these products.

What material did you specifically ask about?
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
ams said:
That is directly from the Avery rep himself. I called Avery and talked to one of their tech guys and he flat out told me yes they top coated it so you don't have to laminate anymore, however laminate will not stick to it. So go sue Avery for making that claim. You are a sad sad person to think I am going to start spreading lies about Avery.
Click to expand...

Whoa!
I didn't accuse you of anything. I asked "Are you sure" of your claims...and was giving you a heads up on the power of your claims and what could happen if they weren't true. Especially since this forum is crawling with reps and very active customer bases of the very products under discussion.
I didn't call you any names, or even use negative language toward you.
I like to stick to FACTS...not emotions and that's what my response was about. Facts vs Emotions when making claims about product claims.
You didn't say that a "rep told you those things" initially...so how could we know this?
 
Baz

Baz

New Member
How on earth do you not need to laminate if the material was top coated before printing? That's BS.
I use MPI1105 and DOL1360 lam. Installs great and performs well.
 
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