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Best setup for abstract art?

John Butto

New Member
Brinked: from your posts you seem to be a lot smarter that most of us. So let me ask you a question, how do I start making a lot of money in your line of business.
I have some art that I would like to reproduce and sell, can you explain the step by step process?
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Relax Brinked

Gino is not a representative of Signs 101 and is famous for singling out a new member that he has concluded should not be a member here. Your original post was not stated in the best manner to avoid the confrontation you've received. Mentioning "outsourcing to China" is a buzz word to many. So let this one go by and stop replying to this thread.

To the rest of you guys that are having a problem ... The OP creates art and graphics or licenses it, he outsources the production and then sells the product to end users. He now seeks to stop outsourcing and handle all aspects of production. How is this any different than many of you who probably at one time or another outsourced some inkjet printing before you decided to purchase your own in-house ability to print? This new member certainly appears to me to be a graphics professional and that is why his membership here was approved.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Brinked: from your posts you seem to be a lot smarter that most of us. So let me ask you a question, how do I start making a lot of money in your line of business.
I have some art that I would like to reproduce and sell, can you explain the step by step process?

Etsy.com
ebay.com
istockphoto.com
shutterstock.com
dreamstime.com
fotolia.com
123rf.com
expressclipart.com
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Let's use your analogy.

You said.... S I G N S 1 0 1. Not cut your local or semi-local sign shop outta the picture 101. Not come here and take all ya can 101. Not cop an attitude 101. Not make fun of a very knowledgeable member 101. Anyway, I hope not.

If someone was coming to 1st grade in your school and couldn't speak a word of English, would someone in charge not re-assign this kid to the proper authorities and find a school where he could at least communicate so he/she could learn the basics ??

Why stick a kid gifted in art... in a music school ?? Why put a mathematician in with a dentist ??

brinkie just admitted he/she didn't fit in and didn't want to give back to the community. It was evidently, early on, he/she was here for the pickin's and that only.

Welcome from sunny south Florida. :rolleyes:
 

player

New Member
I told you that this Brinked guy is smart, he already has Fred working for him.


ag·gra·vate (
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schwa.gif
-v
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lprime.gif
)tr.v. ag·gra·vat·ed, ag·gra·vat·ing, ag·gra·vates

1. To make worse or more troublesome.
2. To rouse to exasperation or anger; provoke.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Sometimes you just can't help yourself even when you know it is not the smartest thing to do......



wayne k
guam usa
 

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artbot

New Member
since my partnership went south, and i've had people i've worked with for the last decade betray me, and spend and additional $200k trying to reverse engineer my work after we dissolved the partnership, ...i've since developed a bit better keener senses. and this guy was setting off the radar. regardless of any parity between any of our business models, it's all over ridden by being overbearing and displaying a grandiose sense of entitlement.

signs101 is a spectacular board. we all benefit from it immensely. and there's a great sense of etiquette amongst all of us.
 

player

New Member
I was thinking about the OP and how much better it would be if he gave the artists a royalty from each print he sold.
 

John Butto

New Member
I was thinking about the OP and how much better it would be if he gave the artists a royalty from each print he sold.
[h=2]hy·poc·ri·sy[/h] noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\ : the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Hey guys. I have been doing a lot of reading on these forums this week and it has been extremely helpful to say the least. I have learned so much just from reading up on here, I made it a point to add signs101.com to my search queries in google so it would return results from here.

Right now I am in the research mode of how I want to proceed with my business. I am not in the sign business but my situation is pretty similar since I deal with art and I am looking to simplify the process.

My current situation is that I sell modern/abstract artworks on metal panels. These artworks are painted on aluminum panels that are 16 inches width by 28 inches height. The artoworks come on 1 panel or on a series of panels (usually 3-5 panels but sometimes 7 panels are needed) that come together to make 1 piece of art spaced at about 1 inch from each other. Right now I buy these artworks handpainted from china in bulk. This is fine for the most part, but this means no 2 artworks can be the same and some people do complain but its not many.

The biggest issue is that when I run out, I run out, another order takes about 45 days to arrive so thats starting to effect business, especially the ones who want custom made artworks, they do not want to wait 45 days.

My solution is to make my own. I talked with clients and many of them dont mind having printed works of art, they just want it for the design.

From my research on here and some other forums is that I have 2 options.

1. Sublimation. This would mean purchasing a sublimation printer that can support printing of 28in wide media such as the epson 9890 which can be had for around $3500.00 and a large format heat press such as the geo knight press for $14k that has a surface area of 44 x 64in but that also means some artworks will have to be broken into two which I can live with since about 80% of the artworks art less than 64" wide. With toher supplies needed this is about a $25,000.00 upfront cost to get started when factoring in other supplies. Then I have to find out which inks I need to use, how much it costs to refill etc.

2. Flatbed UV printer. Such as the cet Q500. Something like this has more than enough surface space and perhaps an easier process than the sublimation? Cost here is of course around $80,000.00

I do not have any experience with this kind of thing, even though I consider myself a technical person I dont think I would have too much trouble learning how to do this myself, but I wont spend $80k on something just to try it out only to find out whoops...it does not print well on metal.

I do not want to have to apply inkaid or anything else or buy expensive precoated metal panels. I would liek to buy the metal panels in bulk for a decent price from a wholesaler I have seen a few mentioned on these forums and print directly onto them so thats why the UV flatbeds and sublimation methods seem to do this unless I am mistaken.

So what do you guys thing my best way to go in terms of quality and ease of production? Really looking forward to everyones feedback. Money is not really an issue as I have an established business currently and looking to expand.

First, I would like to thank you for supporting artists in the united states, not china. That is REAL helpful. This really makes me as an abstract artist want to help you.

Second, if your work you are getting is original and now you want to do PRINTS ... why the **** are you even on here asking how to do it yourself ... not the same ******* thing.

Third, you are a waste of flesh reseller. I get it, you can get the art for pennies on the dollar ... doesn't mean you are actually contributing to anything worth while other than wasting peoples time on here and hurting the arts in the US. As you are located in FLORIDA ... why don't you get one of any of the HUNDREDS of art students in the universities around Florida OR GO TO RINGLING SCHOOL OF ART IN SARASOTA FLORIDA AND GET YOUR ART DONE BY ACTUAL ARTISTS IN THE USA NOT SOME CHAIN OF CHILDREN BEING PAID A DOLLAR A DAY TO PUMP OUT YOUR PRODUCTS.

Scab. How bout you support local struggling art students instead. ***
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Thank you for some of the replies on here. Sounds like the CET is in fact worth exploring more.

I deal with china because I have no choice. I do not sell on etsy or ebay, or on the internet at all for that matter. I have partnerships with galleries all over the US and I deal mostly with new construction such as hotels and commercial buildings.

Having the stuff painted by real artists in america would be impossible considering the quantities I do. Believe me, importing from China was not something I wanted to do but if I did not, I simply would not be in business. My customers are fully aware that these are produced in China but they know they are paying for my support, resources and expertise in the industry.

Gino, the artworks are made by artists such as my father and about a dozen others which we buy the rights to the designs. We then have the rights to reproduce the pieces anyway we see fit. My work area currently consists of 3 warehouses. The art works can be seen in Galleries in South Florida, MA, NYC and Chicago, as well as commercial buildings around the USA.

artbot, perhaps you should understand that because you're a senior member on here, does not give you the right to decide who comes on here and asks for advice. Obviously you feel this way because you consider me a competitor and you don't want someone else on here doing something similar to yourself. What you're failing to realize is that your comments are bad for the people who run signs101. Communities such as this don't make money off the senior members who makes a hundred posts a day, they make money from the lurkers and the new people who come around and click on the advertisements. I have already clicked on a half dozen or so ads and bookmarked a few.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I did not come on here to step on anyones toes or learn any "trade secrets". I will not be posting or coming on here any further since I don't want this thread to get any more out of hand than it has already gotten. Thank you to everyone who contributed feedback good and bad. I wish you all the best with your businesses.

This is the biggest load of hoakie b.s. I've read ... no one gives a flying **** if you sell on the internet ... the main fact that you went with overseas production of art is the issue and now you want to come on here, ask for info on how to even cut them out ... you're an *** to the 10th degree. Yeah, the only way you get your art is if you deal with china. ********. Scab. This has nothing to do with trade secrets ... it has to do with being a d-bag to the art community you're attempting to be part of. considering you haven't listed one 'gallery' that would put chain production child labor produced **** in ... makes me scream liar and the general stupidity at this whole attempt to garner information from people who really don't want to deal with your b.s.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Oh, and just so I'm a little helpful and not just reacting to how insulting this attempt is ...

You want to do this art yourself?

1. take one of your 'three warehouses' and designate a production art area.
2. you hire production artists to make your work.
3. pay them decently as they will produce you what you need, when you need it.
4. don't make even cheaper printed reproductions of highly reproduced child labor product.
 

player

New Member
hy·poc·ri·sy

noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\ : the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel

You seem to like to always argue and aggravate.

Is there an ignore function on this site? I think I would enjoy my visits to this site without seeing John Butto's aggressive and confrontational posts.
 

John Butto

New Member
You seem to like to always argue and aggravate.

Is there an ignore function on this site? I think I would enjoy my visits to this site without seeing John Butto's aggressive and confrontational posts.
Please relay this to player since I am on his ignore list.
He, player, posted a snide remark to me with post #29 and then I waited to see him do the same thing that he accused me of with post #35. I want to thank him for waking me up from a fog of wasting time with my antics on this forum and dealing with people like him and others that would like to see me sitting in the Time Out Chair.
And as Bob, who I regard as a Jeopardy genius, says that you should explain yourself in three paragraphs, and I feel that I have done that.
 

skyhigh

New Member
I will say that I've always had a great deal of respect for Artbot, and my comments are not in any way meant to dis you.

I get a kick out of threads and people like this. You come on here looking for free and quick answers to evidently something you want to get around without any effort, time or money invested, but you won't answer one stinkin' question I asked about something you know everything about. Why is that ?? You afraid I'm gonna step on your toes ?? See, the door swings both ways. You have artists of a dozen or so, who can't paint and duplicate fast enough for you to make money on them and for them, so you outsource to our worst neighbor. You feel no pain, cause it's your gain, but how 'bout the hundreds of people who could do this right here in this country ?? Oh, that's right, you can't turn a profit on your friends' work that way. Costs are prohibited. Perhaps you are a type of carpetbagger ?? :Oops: that's right, now even the Chinese can't do it for you fast or cheap enough, so now that you learned all of their ways too, you're gonna throw them under the bus, just like you are here. Can't get your way and through bitter talking and making fun of one of the best contributors here, you intend to leave. That's right, just run and never help a another soul now that you've gotten what you needed. Here to take, but nothing to give.
No one here can control how someone enters our ranks, but let it be said, the losers usually show their colors immediately and while leaving for good, say some of the sweetest things on their way out. :U Rock:​

Gino, you really nailed this guy. You know everything about him, and his business from only a couple posts. Either you have a crystal ball, or quite a bit of story tellin imagination.

Third, you are a waste of flesh reseller. I get it, you can get the art for pennies on the dollar ... doesn't mean you are actually contributing to anything worth while other than wasting peoples time on here and hurting the arts in the US. As you are located in FLORIDA ... why don't you get one of any of the HUNDREDS of art students in the universities around Florida OR GO TO RINGLING SCHOOL OF ART IN SARASOTA FLORIDA AND GET YOUR ART DONE BY ACTUAL ARTISTS IN THE USA NOT SOME CHAIN OF CHILDREN BEING PAID A DOLLAR A DAY TO PUMP OUT YOUR PRODUCTS. *

I'm probably more frustrated than any other American, when it comes to foreign trade. Hell, one Christmas a couple years ago, I refused to purchase Christmas lights, unless I could find a box made in the USA....which never happened.

Take a look at the tag in your shirt.....made in the USA?
How about artbots new CNC router? I think he bought the Chinese one.
How about your Christmas lights?
Your printer or plotter?

You rant about being a "reseller", while the guy clearly stated he wanted to produce this art himself (now MADE IN THE USA....yeahhhhh, right?)
We're all "resellers" at some point in this business.

Seems like this guy really got under your skin.
fyi. anytime someone mentions purchasing their wares from China, always makes me cringe also.

I think some of you have gotten a little carried away. No offense meant to anyone.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
I will say that I've always had a great deal of respect for Artbot, and my comments are not in any way meant to dis you.



Gino, you really nailed this guy. You know everything about him, and his business from only a couple posts. Either you have a crystal ball, or quite a bit of story tellin imagination.



I'm probably more frustrated than any other American, when it comes to foreign trade. Hell, one Christmas a couple years ago, I refused to purchase Christmas lights, unless I could find a box made in the USA....which never happened.

Take a look at the tag in your shirt.....made in the USA?
How about artbots new CNC router? I think he bought the Chinese one.
How about your Christmas lights?
Your printer or plotter?

You rant about being a "reseller", while the guy clearly stated he wanted to produce this art himself (now MADE IN THE USA....yeahhhhh, right?)
We're all "resellers" at some point in this business.

Seems like this guy really got under your skin.
fyi. anytime someone mentions purchasing their wares from China, always makes me cringe also.

I think some of you have gotten a little carried away. No offense meant to anyone.

I don't see any offense in this post, as I was quite irate when I read this thread I responded as such. I'm fine with reselling it's part of business. as of last month I make half my income from original fine art (are lease/rentals, sales, print sales, reproduction agreements, commissions, etc) so where my issues come from is someone taking art to be reproduced and getting it done in china (link to article on the village that it's probably done at) because he 'has to' and you know ... I get it I really do ... but then because he's having production issues he instead of keeping his 'brand' intact (and I keep that term loose) by hiring local work to prevent him from losing money by losing sales even if it might cost him more ... he wants to make even cheaper print reproductions that in both the eyes of his collectors and clients will not be even remotely the same value as 'original' paintings even if they are reproductions and there by alienating the art market in his local area and putting an even worse valuation of art in the market ...

If you think about what he wants in terms of him coming on here saying 'Hey, my sign guy takes forever, so I want to start doing this myself ... for less" ...................................

how would any of this board respond.

It's the same thing ... only with an overabundance of people in the US who are skilled and COULD use the money ... he's resorting to destroying public perception and valuation in an already inflated art market.
 

skyhigh

New Member
he wants to make even cheaper print reproductions that in both the eyes of his collectors and clients will not be even remotely the same value as 'original' paintings even if they are reproductions and there by alienating the art market in his local area and putting an even worse valuation of art in the market ...

Valid point. I guess it would depend on his clientele and market he is after. A true "collector" will not be buying knock off prints though.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
It depends on the market. Couple years back I had a broker that provided original art to interior design firms and high end furniture boutiques. While prints were easy and cheap and could garner a good profit, they would get work that might be production based paintings and sculptures but would want them all original and signed by the artist ... they would give me a theme like any other commission, I would produce a couple examples, they would choose what they would want me to produce and I would make about 20 of them at a time. I have no problem with that at all, it doesn't reduce the value of my name at all since it was no more part of my collection (or signed under my name) than the graphic design I do for clients. This sort of art has 3 markets, the first being a mass consumer market (retail stores, furniture stores, etc etc etc) the second being for interior design (Chains, restaurants, hotels, etc etc) where are is needed to be similar for continuity in their places of business. the third is for those 'original art' sales at the civic center. A lot of times that is the only way some people can have a huge 5'x7' painting or it's a good way to get art in the home if you value it to enrich your life even if the value of the art doesn't grow because of the mass production nature of the work ... I mean we don't expect that lamp from Ikea to get more expensive as it gets older.

It has it's place.

Saturation of a product reduces it's value and thus work that is completely original from an artist, not mass produced and is presented in limited quantity will hold a higher value than someone who pumps out 40 paintings a day. But that doesn't mean it will sell for what someone wants ... any good artist will balance production work with high end work, but that is business smarts. Sadly I know I'm not the .1% of 1% that will be a NY gallery artist that makes a small fortune doing the same work over and over again. I'm a working artist, I will need to innovate, change and grow my art to make a living.
 
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