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Buying new computer - Windows 10 or Windows 7?

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by Jean Shimp, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Jean Shimp

    Jean Shimp Member

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    I bought a new computer from Amazon with Windows 10. We had issues setting it up and I returned it. Computer guy said it had hardware quirks. So now I'm shopping for another computer and wondering if I should go with Windows 7 instead of 10. The short time that I was using Win 10, I hated it. But that's typical with upgrades for me as I hate having to change the way I'm used to doing things. So, I'm trying to decide which OS to buy. I'm wondering what other sign people think of Windows 10 and if there are compatibility issues with the typical sign programs. so, 10 or 7? Thanks.
     
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  2. Kottwitz-Graphics

    Kottwitz-Graphics Very Active Member

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    I hate win 10...but when my laptop died, I couldn't find a laptop with win 8, which I like so much more...

    And in turn, nothing works on 10. I had to upgrade Corel, and need to get signtools back, and my estimate program didn't work, and I had to get the newest version of quickbooks...

    It just keeps adding up.
     
  3. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Windows 7 is now 9 years old... I'd go with 10
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Think of all the still XP users out there and that OS is a smidge older then 9 yrs (truth be told, I hated that OS from the get go, but I digress).

    To the OP:

    It's going to be hard to have a computer that will have Win 7 on it. If you go with workstation class computers, you may be able to find one that has downgrade rights to Win 7 from Win 10. Your best bet is to have an install disc or ISO (or make an ISO from an install disc, some newer computers don't have optical drives anymore) to install it yourself.

    While Win 7 is long in the tooth and MS is making it harder and harder for those last 2 yrs (or yr plus some months left of support), if you keep it off the WAN, it won't matter.

    Truth be told, I would highly suggest keeping Win 10 off the WAN when it comes to production computers. It is essential a rolling release OS with every major version going EOL every 18 months (that's almost as often as Fedora (13 months)). Plus, MS (and I can understand why this is) has never had a very good reputation with updates in general and now they are forced. You may be able to delay them, but you'll have to take them if you want support from MS or even some software vendors as I'm sure they will start to say Win 10 from such and such update (Adobe is already doing that for programs like Premier, Audition, and After Effects with the next CC release (and this applies to their Mac versions as well), while some on here may not use those, I actually do, so that would affect me if I went the CC route).

    Win 10 has been the bane of my existence, because it's what my dad has and I have to play IT for him and he does not have the niche programs that we do. He had one update that killed his activation for his OS and for his Office products. These are MS branded products and their very own update killed the activation. That's bad. Bare in mind, this is potentially an issue with any update that you get. That's the double edge sword of updates, supposed to help fix things, but they can also break things as well. Since most people are used to running web based apps, this isn't as big of a deal, for those that still used traditionally installed apps, not quite the same thing. Glad most of my workflow is portable programs (and not using Win or Mac OS). Less of an issue, but still have things local.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  5. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    Windows 3.0
     
  6. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Naw, this and only this.

    On a 2 yr old Lenovo workstation.
     

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  7. jriley

    jriley Member

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    In my opinion, your best bet is to bite the bullet and get the latest OS and any purchase any software upgrades that are required along with it. You're just kickin' the can down the road if you don't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

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    This issue I'm finding is the software is often requiring you to go to 10. First I would check to see if the existing software your using will work on 10 or if you can run it in compatibility mode.
     
  9. ams

    ams Very Active Member

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    Windows 10 is annoying, but 7 is almost non-existant, so don't waste your money.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. decalman

    decalman Active Member

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    I love my window 7 Lenovo.
    I just dumped xp 2 years ago .
    I'm always the last to go up.
     
  11. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    If the OP keeps the production computer connected to the internet, there is a good chance that even if they were able to get their software to run under Win 10, that a future update could kill it.

    That's the very bad thing with a rolling release model. If one is going to go rolling release then everything else also has to be bleeding edge as well.

    If people didn't like Flexi "forcing" them to upgrade with how they were doing things with 8.6 and earlier, guess what, the rolling release model of Windows just increases the odds. Won't affect all the programs the same way, it depends on what MS deprecates and/or removes (especially since MS is trying to thin out the bloat as it is in some ways).

    A rolling release model could very well mean the need for more frequent updating traditional perpetual licensed software.

    Just a possibility.

    Keep things off the WAN, it's amazing how long some things can last. The WAN connection is the single biggest vector for issues on production computers.

    I'm all for legacy as long as it's still the efficient way to do things for how you are setup. Once efficiency takes a hit for you, then it's time to upgrade. Bare in mind, efficiency is going to vary from shop to shop, it depends on what tools of the software that one uses.
     
  12. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    The only thing I can really recommend regarding Windows 10, is while not technically legal due to the licensing - it is for enterprise customers with a software agreement. But buy a license for Windows 10 LTSB (you can find them on eBay and "generally" if you then download the iso, install, and then activate it somewhat promptly it will work just fine indefinitely. LTSB is the "long term servicing branch". It is the cleanest least buggy version. There is no store, there is no Cortana, there is no Edge browser, there is no Xbox, no Candy Crush, no other stupid things like games just installing themselves and showing up, etc. It also does NOT get the big feature updates either though. Just basic security updates. You do still have to go through and make sure to turn off all the metrics/data gathering and reporting stuff but there is less of that too. Microsoft says LTSB is intended for critical systems and not for general business use. In my opinion it is intended for business systems as I do not personally see ANY business need for Xbox, Candy Crush, and other junk on a business computer.

    Microsoft did just recently state that they are going to start charging for updates for Windows 7 after January 2020. https://hothardware.com/news/windows-7-security-updates-extended
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. player

    player Major Contributor

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    Get Windows 7 Pro. You can always update to 10 later, but the fact that Win10 automatically updates without your permission, is a deal breaker. I have a friend with a recording studio and he is constantly unable to work after a Windows 10 upgrade. Usually the morning a big client is coming in to work on a project.

    I have been on 7 pro for years. I did not update. It works great, and until 10 stops the auto upgrades I will probably stay with 7.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. player

    player Major Contributor

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    Not that I am recommending it, but I ran on XP for years after the security updates stopped without any issues. I have Avast Free and ran some manual spyware scans with other free software. No issues.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    I have 2 computers set up the same both have 7. I have no reason to go to 10 and no desire.

    you could always buy a used tower and load 7 on it and keep updates cut off. Microsoft sucks!
     
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  16. Kottwitz-Graphics

    Kottwitz-Graphics Very Active Member

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    What are you talking about. I have the computer in my shop that runs my plotter, and the computer that drives my cnc, and they both are xp machines. They are not on the internet, and run fine, and I have 0% chance of upgrading them.
     
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  17. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    EXACTLY! It matters not the OS as long as Microsoft doesnt get their hands on it and screws it up with their pointless updates, it will run forever. My windows 7 is running as strong as it was when installed in 09. Imagine that Im running a 9-10 year old computer with "outdated" OS and NO ISSUES.
     
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  18. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    That's the key thing right there. Production rigs period, even if they are on the latest and "greatest" OS, shouldn't be on the internet. A lot of issues could be mitigating by that one fact. Unfortunately, if also on the latest and "greatest" software, probably not able to do that as it's probably SaaS based.

    While I am more of a fan of VMing the legacy OS and keeping it isolated that way compared to trying to maintain legacy hardware as well, either will do it. Just keep production rigs off the internet.

    Have to do a fresh install, depending on when the last update was done on that used box, Win 7 and Win 8.1 did have an update floating around there that enabled auto updates without the ability to turn it off. Now, I don't know if they kept the workarounds to that open or if they closed them up like they did with Win 10 as time passed. It's possible that they have quicker workarounds compared to Win 10.


    I think the direction they are going in sucks, that's why I've left their ecosystem behind (and up until Win 10, I had enjoyed most of their OS versions, except XP, I hated that version) and I didn't go in the Mac direction either.
     
  19. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    You guys are putting way too much thought into this. The OP is going to eventually need to learn 10, besides you can't buy a new Win 10 machine easily. Do it and get it over with. Why wait till your older and less adept to change.
     
  20. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    Still rocking an XP Pro rig for back-up RIP duties. Latest beast was purpose built by a local shop with Win 7 Pro. It has code they wrote that keeps Win 10 from auto updating. It flat out flies. That's what you get with custom builds.

    In the lab at school our Indigo press runs XP Pro.;)
     
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